Hartley, 73, Worthing
Occupation Retired architect
Voting record Always Labour
Amuse bouche His first memory is being in a pushchair at a Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament rally with his parents, who raised him as a Marxist-Leninist. His teenage rebellion was to become a Maoist
Warren, 65, Worthing
Occupation Paramedic
Voting record Because he votes on issues rather than party politically, he’s backed Labour, Green and Lib Dems
Amuse bouche He is an enthusiastic cold-water swimmer, and swims for charity every year. “I was wild swimming before it had that name!”
For starters
Hartley I was a bit nervous, but he’s a very interesting guy and we had a lot in common. He’s into mindfulness and I meditate every day at the crack of dawn. He’s also a really good painter and I draw with charcoal.
Warren My wife and I have eaten there and the food is always good. The starter was scallops with pancetta, and for the main I had linguine with crab and chilli. For dessert, we both had affogato – ice-cream with Baileys and espresso.
Hartley We had so much in common – we even chose the same starter. Then I had a linguine carbonara.
Warren I wondered how we would have opposing views and still converse without being antagonistic, but it was never a problem.
The big beef
Warren He was for abolishing the monarchy because of its hoarded wealth, but I think it could be key in reforming the whole political system. Coming from a colony myself – New Zealand – the value of the monarchy is diluted somewhat, but maybe it gives the country some solidity while political change goes on.
Hartley We agreed the monarchy has too much money, too many properties and too many junior royals who live in big houses. We also agreed the two-party system doesn’t work. He’d done a lot of reading on democracy, and we settled on the Danish system.
Warren I like the Danish way because it’s more of a coalition system: multiple parties can be voted into government and bills are discussed at length among different ideologies in their equivalent of the Commons. It’s then put in front of the monarch for signing off – which is great, give them a job! This way, there’s no need for a House of Lords.
Hartley I disagree that we don’t need a House of Lords: I think a second chamber is a good idea, but the way people get into the Lords needs to be changed. They shouldn’t just be put there by Boris Johnson.
Sharing plate
Warren Immigration is not going away. If I couldn’t get a job, and food and water were scarce, I’d want to move countries. But how do you deal with it? I’d suggest we get a sum of money from all the wealthy countries and build a campus-type situation – maybe in France or north Africa, where they’ve got a bit of room – and house and train people in various skills.
Hartley Migration is a natural thing that humans have always done, because of food or weather or warfare. But it needs to be managed. When people arrive in Europe, they should be given language skills, accommodation and help with integrating into European society. That’s a lot easier than having all the pressure on Italy or Greece.
For afters
Hartley I voted remain, even though I didn’t like the EU because it’s basically a capitalist institution. I don’t like that the UK government stopped freedom of movement: I think that’s a very important aspect of modern life. It’s one of the best ways of reducing war, because you understand people better.
Warren I voted Brexit, because when I was growing up in New Zealand, England was a manufacturing gem: they made their own cars, they had industry – but the EU meant each country had its own speciality, so if there were any problems it was left with a big hole. I thought industry and agriculture and horticulture in the UK would have had a rebirth after Brexit, but it doesn’t seem to have happened.
Takeaways
Hartley I’d like to meet him again. Because he’s a paramedic, I got an insight into what it’s like working for the NHS, that it’s really trying on your physicality.
Warren If you can talk rationally and calmly about a subject, if you have kindness, empathy and tolerance as part of your makeup, you can appreciate someone else’s viewpoint and reach common ground.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Hartley and Warren ate at Casa Ciro in Worthing
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