The controversy surrounding the content on the Spotify Technology SA (NYSE:SPOT) podcast “The Joe Rogan Experience” is showing no signs of abating, with greater pressure being placed on the company to address high-profile complaints of medical misinformation and racially insensitive commentary on past episodes.
Spotify CEO Daniel Ek has both distanced himself from Rogan’s episodes while standing by his star podcaster. In a memo to the Spotify staff, Ek said Rogan’s comments “do not represent the values of this company” — yet he insisted “canceling voices is a slippery slope” and he had no plans for “silencing” Rogan.
While Spotify has removed multiple older episodes of “The Joe Rogan Experience” with problematic content — the exact number is unclear, with sources putting it between 70 and 113 — Ek added he was committed to an “incremental investment of $100 million for the licensing, development, and marketing of music (artists and songwriters) and audio content from historically marginalized groups” in an effort to widen Spotify’s programming.
Whether or not it was an intentional pledge sum, $100 million is also the figure that Rogan achieved in his four-year 2020 contract with Spotify to make his show exclusive to the platform.
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Whither Rogan? Benzinga surveyed media and entertainment industry thought leaders to determine what it would take for Spotify to see Rogan as a liability rather than an asset. For starters, there is the question of whether Spotify can swiftly drop him.
“My understanding is that Spotify has an exclusive license on "The Joe Rogan Experience" podcast, which is produced by Joe Rogan and his people,” said Seth L. Berman, partner and director of the Intellectual Property and Entertainment Department in the New York law firm Abrams Fensterman LLP. “So, it comes down to whether or not there is any provisions within the agreement that would allow Spotify to terminate the license agreement with ‘The Joe Rogan Experience.’ Some contracts have moral clauses or certain actions or behaviors that are defined that would allow one party to terminate the agreement.”
Berman added that any termination of the contract would come at a price for Spotify, either by paying off Rogan under any severance terms in the agreement or offering to buy out the contract.
“It sounds like Spotify’s options are very limited as to what they can do,” he said.
Dr. Bill Yousman, associate professor and director of the Media Literacy and Digital Culture graduate program at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Connecticut, pointed out that Spotify is getting “a very sizable return on their investment from him,” and he believed “those financial decisions are going to outweigh the kind of social upheaval that is occurring around this.”
While Yousman didn't predict Rogan would get the boot, he theorized there was behind-the-scenes damage control between the company and its star attraction.
“They are in a crisis communication stage at this point and I think it's more likely, they're going to try backchannel ways to rein him in,” he said.
Veteran entertainment journalist Michael Musto observed that Spotify is giving the impression of slow-walking Rogan to the exit door.
“It seems like they have so far been afraid to take the step of totally banning him, so they have been taking baby steps towards that,” he said. “First, they put warnings on his podcasts, plus they added links to accurate information. Then, reportedly, they removed 70 of his podcasts after it came out that he used the N-word.”
The racial aspect of the story arose over the weekend via social media postings by singer/songwriter India.Arie, who asked for the removal of her music from the platform.
Some prominent Rogan supporters including Dwayne Johnson and Andrew Yang dialed down their earlier enthusiastic support for the podcaster, with Johnson stating it was a “learning moment for me” and Yang insisting “I think we should have the capacity to forgive people — whether a podcaster or a mayor — if they mess up.”
“I think if celebrities and the public keep putting pressure on them, and if their next financial report is alarming, they will realize that it's not only a good thing to purge all of Rogan's input, but it will also be cost-effective,” Musto said.
The first celebrities to complain about Rogan’s show were legendary singer/songwriters Neil Young and Joni Mitchell in late January. But outside of India.Arie, no major contemporary music star is following their lead.
Jeff Peters, editor and publisher of the pop culture-focused website News and Times, didn't think the star power of those celebrities challenging Rogan’s position on Spotify could emit major change.
“If more come to hear Rogan than the others, then Rogan wins,” he said. “There is no demand for artists who peaked 50 years ago and whose music can be found everywhere.”
Pressure Points: At the moment, Spotify is noticing some negative impact from this issue — a Feb. 1 poll conducted by Forrester Research found 19% of respondents said they already canceled their service over the Rogan brouhaha and 18.5% would consider canceling if more artists left the platform. Still, 54% said they had no intention of canceling.
“Rogan has a massive audience and viewership, far more than the traditional networks, cable networks, radio syndicates, etc.,” said Ronald Magas, president of Magas Media Consultants, LLC in Monroe, Connecticut. “Rogan is the center of attention, as he is a major influencer who many follow. The fact he is in the news makes him even more popular by default.”
“If at some point Spotify decides the money they're losing from people leaving the platform is somehow more than what they're gaining from his audience, that will be the end of Rogan on Spotify,” said Kenny Webster, Houston-based syndicated radio talk show host. “But so far it sounds like the profits are far exceeding the losses.”
Many of the problematic Rogan shows have been on Spotify for weeks and months, but are only now generating controversy. Some thought leaders say this is a reflection of Rogan’s degree of influence on the public, which is surpassing traditional media.
Webster also pointed out that the depth and scope of Rogan’s programming is very different from much of the mainstream media, which creates discomfort within this industry. One of the controversies at the crux of Rogan’s COVID episodes involved his willingness to give a platform to virologist Dr. Robert Malone, whose anti-vaccination statements got him banned from Twitter (NYSE:TWTR) and blacklisted from mainstream media outlets.
“It's embarrassing for the mainstream media and the fact that he's entertaining ideas and theories that challenge the government or so-called mainstream media's narratives about health and the pandemic is just as bad for the president's chances of being reelected as it is for the profit margin at companies like Pfizer and Moderna,” he said. “Not coincidentally, Pfizer and Moderna spend lots of money advertising on networks like CNN or MSNBC.”
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Another Way Out? In the event that more controversy continues to percolate around Rogan and Spotify and the podcaster and platform decide to part ways, what happens next?
On the morning of Feb. 7, Chris Pavlovksi, founder and CEO of the video platform Rumble, which is going public via a SPAC merger with CF Acquisition Corp VI (NASDAQ:CFVI), issued an invitation to join his operation and offered “100 million bucks for four years,” matching the Spotify contract. Julian Chandra, CEO of the video-sharing website Odysee, immediately followed up by facetiously tweaking Pavlovksi’s largesse with an offer for Rogan totaling “100 gazillion bucks over four years.”
Yet Peter Pinho, star and producer of the long-running internet talk show PPRN Radio, suggested Rogan could take a page from Anthony Cumia, the shock jock who was fired in 2014 from SiriusXM (NASDAQ:SIRI) over racially-insensitive content.
“He can start his own platform, which is what Anthony has,” Pinho said, referring to the subscription-based Compound Media network. “Anthony has over 1 million followers and he charges $13 a month. So, guess what he's making? He's making $13 million a year or so.
“Joe Rogan could take his followers and do the same thing,” Pinho added. “He doesn't need Spotify, and Spotify these other companies need to chill out with the cancel bullshit.”
Grant Stern, lead producer at Miami Podcast Studios, predicted that a future without Rogan could possibly be a blessing in disguise.
“Spotify has to start realizing that $100 million can buy a lot of very popular podcasts, not just one really big one,” he said.
Nonetheless, Stern acknowledged the Rogan controversy is far from wrapping up and slipping out of sight.
“Has Joe Rogan stepped over the line? Clearly,” Stern said. “Has Spotify done something about it after immense public pressure? They're starting to. But is it enough? Who can say at this point?”
Photo: Joe Rogan with Marshall Mae Rogan; courtesy of Joe Rogan's Facebook page.
