Welsh Rugby Union chief executive Steve Phillips has poured cold water on the notion of any of the four professional sides joining the English Premiership on a day when the professional game in Wales took another blow.
Phillips also admitted there was no deadline for when a financial deal with the Professional Rugby Board would be reached as he urged professional players caught up in the uncertainty to "stick with us".
He was speaking after the WRU's annual general meeting, where the resolution to allow the board to appoint an independent chair was rejected by the clubs. Both Phillips and WRU chair Rob Butcher expressed their disappointment afterwards, with Butcher calling the 65.4% votes cast in favour of the motion "good, but not good enough to get over the line".
The inability to appoint an independent chair outside of the eight directors on the WRU board, who have been put in their position by votes from district representatives on the WRU council, is a blow to modernising the governance of the union and comes at a time when the professional sides are stuck in a state of financial paralysis. A financial deal between the WRU and Cardiff, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets has not been reached despite negotiations lasting several months. It means the four sides are still in the dark about their budgets for the current season and beyond, with out-of-contract players struggling to negotiate new deals.
While Butcher had campaigned for change with this special resolution to benefit the whole Welsh game, there is a sense that the failure to pass the independent chair motion will hit the professional sides most. But when asked whether this was a hammer blow to the four sides, Phillips said he didn't really "see the link". "The PRB are a sub-board of the WRU so they should be disappointed in the same way the WRU are disappointed," he said. "If you're asking me if the professional game prefers an independent chair, then probably."
However, he added that he did not think the outcome of the AGM would complicate negotiations, emphasising the message of WRU financial director Tim Moss earlier this month that no time limit had been placed on matters despite the precarious situation unfolding with clubs unable to plan ahead.
"I don't think it should [complicate negotiations] because I view them as two separate things," he said. "We're quite advanced. We just need to agree on the last few things, which is a mix of rugby and financials. I think the professional clubs' ambitions are more towards an independent chair and are more long-term.
"There's no real update [on the deal]. We meet very regularly. We've got to find a sustainable model and we've got to take our time in doing that as we've got to set ourselves up for success. We meet regularly, the dialogue is good and positive and it's all about getting the right answer. We haven't set a timeline to it as we're more concerned about doing the best thing. We need to get into a consultation, which we are, with the players and the WRPA about what the process is and what we think the future might look like."
Urging players who currently have uncertain futures to "stick with us", Phillips claimed the lack of an agreement was due to more than just finances, adding that the WRU still wanted four professional sides after English rugby recently saw two clubs, Wasps and Worcester, suspended from the Premiership.
"We're absolutely wanting four regions but I think we'd be naïve not to recognise what is going on in England because those are private clubs and three of ours are private clubs," he said. "There's an analogy there, but we'll do everything we can to stop that happening."
Phillips conceded that he did not believe Welsh rugby was in a position for any of the four sides to join the English Premiership. Creating an Anglo-Welsh league has been favoured by some fans ever since the rebel season in 1998/99, with the chaos currently ensuing in England leading to renewed speculation last month that initial talks had been held about two Welsh sides joining forces with the English game.
"I think people have to remember that we are contractually committed to URC long-term," said Phillips. "We did a private equity deal where we had some money on diluting our interest and there's a longevity expectation in that. So while I fully get the emotion of dropping everything, pretending we're not in the URC and going to an Anglo-Welsh, I don't think we're in a position to do that. I think an even better question would be I'm not sure why PRL would want that either."
Phillips also addressed tickets for the upcoming autumn series, with current sales "down on expectations". He admitted the WRU were considering looking at alternatives, such as looking at hosting other third-party events like concerts, to mitigate costs, but did not believe the relative lack of sales was down to the price of the tickets.
"This is always the argument, but New Zealand is the most expensive ticket and that's is pretty much a sell-out," he explained. "Second most expensive ticket is Australia and that's come in line with expectations as we always tend to sell the same amount. Georgia is always a slow burn with walk-ups. It's targeted at a family audience so we're seeing some dwell time with that. The one where we're seeing the biggest difference is Argentina and that, in my opinion, is a very modest ticket price compared to the other two."
Phillips also said that no conversations had taken place with Wales coach Wayne Pivac about extending his contract beyond the 2023 World Cup, although he said he would expect Pivac to want to continue, adding that performances in France would be "an influence".
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