My little daughter and I were shoving ice cream into our faces on a bench right outside of the joint where I bought the grossly overpriced $8 cones when a stranger walked up to me and said, "I follow you on Instagram. You are so inspiring, man — the family, the career, the life — you have it all."
After the dude was finished congratulating me, he asked for a selfie. I wiped the ice cream off of my face and obliged. Dude thanked me again and continued making his way down the block as I finished my ice cream while thinking about the last part of his statement: "You have it all." Do I?
The internet is a tricky place because if you base someone's life on the 10 percent of experiences they choose to post, it could easily appear like they have it all. That gentleman may have seen me enjoying my family, working with celebrities or relaxing on a vacation, but he doesn't know anything about the collection of people I have to take care of, the sleepless nights, the depression and the constant anxiety and guilt that comes with being the guy from his neighborhood that made it. The physical health pain that is connected to wounds I acquired during my early years is the kind of stuff I never post about.
Dr. Wendy Osefo delves deeply into the idea of perception versus reality in her new memoir "Tears of My Mother." The book follows Osefo's journey from Nigeria to America, the stress derived from the epic amounts of culture shock she experienced while assimilating and the story of her praying mother who would trade anything for her own children's success.
Osefo, who is known for her role as the explosive intellect on Bravo's "The Real Housewives of Potomac" and as an assistant professor at Johns Hopkins' School of Education, talked to me this week on "Salon Talks." She opened up about the stress that comes with success and maintaining that success on camera and off. Part of that is the physical stress, like experiencing her hair falling out. On the October 23 episode of RHOP, Osefo goes to the dermatologist and learns that her hair is thinning and falling out, largely due to stress. During our conversation, Osefo reflected on her health and told me "people glorify the booked and busy culture," but what they miss is the cost of it and the vital conversation around mental health.
You can watch my "Salon Talks" episode with Osefo here or read a Q&A of our conversation below to hear more about the newest season of RHOP and why Osefo says she would not be alive today if it wasn't for her family.
The following conversation has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
It's funny that the show is called "The Real Housewives of Potomac," but you're a mogul, a businesswoman and a professor. Is that a conflict?
It is an interesting question because we just did BravoCon where basically all of the people on Bravo TV descend upon New York City for three days of pandemonium. And the reason I say that is because so many people came up to me and they expressed how they just appreciate my role on the show, for them, is showing a career woman, because a lot of people who are in the housewives capacity occupy the space of being a housewife. And I don't want to say just because there are responsibilities that come with that.
For me it's like I am a mom, I am a wife, and then I'm a professor, and now I'm an author, and I have my own business. And so occupying all those spaces is really important to me, even though it's very hard. I also think it's a great way to show that women can be multi-hyphenates. I know coming from my parents' generation, it was like either/or. You pick a career or you pick your family. I think times have changed where women can occupy both of those spaces and be career women, but also be very, very, very knee deep into their family as well. So, yes.
Speaking of your family, let's get into your brand new memoir "Tears of My Mother." This book is heavy. Why did you decide to put this book out right now?
It's interesting because, D, you're now a father, but when you become a parent, there's something that comes within you that you start to think of the responsibility and the heaviness of being a parent and basically bringing this human into this world. And that was at the forefront of my mind when I had my first two children, but they were my boys. When I had my daughter, it was like, "Oh my God, this is a little me. What do I want her to take from this?"
As I was thinking about my mother and her journey, I stopped and I was like, "Wait, this isn't just about me being a mom, but we have to realize that who we are also comes from what we've been through." And for me, that next step was, "Well, what type of mother was my mom?"
"Tears of My Mother" is me taking a deep dive into what it was like being raised by an immigrant parent. What does it mean for me being a first generation Nigerian American? And what does that look like for my children? And what do I want to take from my mom and what do I want to say? I didn't like that. I didn't appreciate that growing up and I don't want to give that to my kids. So it's a lot of conversation of readers going through a journey with me as I deal with, in real time, some of the trauma I went through growing up, and when do I stop living for other people and start living for myself and setting my own rules. That's what this book really is about.
When I was a juvenile delinquent, I never really thought about the role my parents played in my life. I was just trying to move. But once I got older and became a parent, I found myself becoming more judgmental [of their parenting]. Did that happen to you?
Yes, that happened to me in a way that I'm even scared to admit. I was judgmental in things that I saw other parents do or the things that kids did.
Are we too tough on our parents?
Yes, I think we are. Because I think the truth of the matter is if you know better, you do better. We have to realize our parents didn't know better. They did what they thought was best for us. Whether we like it or not, every generation is going to critique their parents because the goal of the next generation is to be better than the one previous. So if that's the goal, then of course if our children are better than us, they're going to do things differently. They will have critiques of us no matter how great we are, they're going to critique us.
"Everyone talks about the greatness of success, but no one talks about the cost of success."
I'm realizing now that that's part of parenting is knowing that you won't be able to make everyone happy, but you just have to do your best.
There's a Wendy hive out there. People love you. However — there's a however here — when they read this book, your mom is going to steal some of your thunder. For our viewers, tell us a little bit about your mom.
My mom is tough as a lion. She's so strong and she has a heart of gold. I've never met anyone with that chemical makeup where they are so tough on the exterior, but they will literally give you the jacket off of their back. And that has always been the contention that I've had with my mother. It's how someone who is so fierce and so iron-fisted in raising you one day can next day call you up and say, "You know I love you, right? I do everything for you."
I was just having a conversation with my husband and I was so mad at my mom for something she did recently. And it's like, as much as I can be upset with her for how she handles situations, I would be remiss if I don't salute her and celebrate her for how strong she is. My mother came to this country with nothing. I was at my mom's college graduation. I saw her work from being a nursing student, to being the director of nursing at one of the biggest hospitals in Maryland. [Her] fierceness and that ability to not take no for an answer is why I am the way I am. I salute her for that, but sometimes I just wish she was more tender and more loving. But she is queen. She is definitely a queen.
"Housewives" viewers see you with your the beautiful family. They see all of your degrees, but these are end results. One of the things I like about this book so much is we get to see you and your journey. You talk about not having your dad around for a portion of your life, you talk about moving around a lot, you deal with racism, you deal with blue contacts.
You read that part?
You write about white people touching your hair. You talk about this alleged basketball career you had. What was your biggest obstacle?
I think right now in my life what I am struggling with is balance. What no one tells you about being successful is that the greatest block to current success is future success. You are always trying to do the next thing. And you're never able just to sit in the moment and appreciate what you have accomplished. To the point that it just becomes routine and it just becomes accolades. When I did a speaking engagement last week, someone was reading my bio, and I was just sitting there and I was looking around and I stopped for a second and I was like, "Who are they talking about?" Because I haven't even stopped for a second to take in what I have done. So I would say I struggle with balancing with just being still. And it has caused me issues.
It's caused me health issues. [On a "Housewives" episode] I go to the dermatologist and my hair's falling out, and she's talking to me saying, "Stress is one of the biggest factors for women's hair loss." And they zoom in and you see a bald spot at the top of my head. And so the reason I say that is people, and if I could keep a real with you, people glorify the booked and busy culture.
People glorify, "Oh, you are doing this, you're doing that." But no one has ever stopped to talk about, "Yes, you are booked and busy, but it comes at a cost." And that is a conversation around mental health. That's a conversation about being the one in the family who made it. That's a conversation about when everyone depends on you that no one talks about. Everyone talks about the greatness of success, but no one talks about the cost of success. And I think it's really important to start having those conversations and say, "Yes, I am booked and busy. Yes, I'm flying from state to state. Yes I am doing these things, but I have kidney stones. My hair is falling out." That's what my price of success is.
The part of your book that stuck with me the most is when you talk about how your mom raised you and your siblings to be able to survive in the world where she came from. You write that you are raising your kids to be able to survive in the world that they live in. So how was that conversation about being booked and busy going to look when you sit down and you talk to your three wonderful children?
It's interesting because I want them to define success by how they define it as opposed to how other people define it. When I made that statement about my mom raising us in the world that she lives in, it's true today my mom will still expect me to come to her house and comfort her if something goes wrong. She doesn't take into account that in today's society people work 9 to 5's. She doesn't take into account that we don't live in the village in Nigeria, in the village, everyone, your mom is down the street. You, you're still there. And I just think it's important for parents to not necessarily put stipulations on our children based upon where we currently are, but just think futuristically.
"I get a level of xenophobia, I get a level of people saying, 'Go back to your country.' Or people saying comments that have no bearing on television, but have everything to do with the fact they don't like that I'm an immigrant."
For instance, I was saying to myself, "Man, I remember growing up and my love, my No. 1 love is music." When I was growing up, we used to go on road trips and we used to listen to the radio and that's where my love for music came from. That's not the case for my kids. They don't have that. And I stopped and I was like, because I'm trying to raise them in the world that I lived in. Now the music isn't coming from the radio, the music is coming from YouTube. Once I changed that thought process, now we play music, Nigerian music, on YouTube and my kids love it. So I think it's just those little pivots of stop trying to make their childhood the same as your childhood. I think that's really important.
Your book is also a love letter to Nigerian pride. The way you talk about the fashion and the custom clothes and the colors and the influence that Nigerian fashion has had on the world, the way you talk about the cars and how you better not be driving nothing busted to the function.
Better not.
I think it's beautiful and I hope you get credit for that. I hope that Nigerian pride bleeds through.
I hope so. I've had people send me messages and say, "Thank you for writing this book." Or other people saying, "I feel like I'm reading about my own childhood." It's a beautiful thing when you put out a product into the world and it's received from a place of relatability. And that's what I've been getting. People have been able to relate to the stories.
I mean, the stories are relatable, not just if you're an immigrant, it's relatable because of the nuances that come with any mother-daughter relationship. It's relatable if you're an individual who's looking to stop living for others and start living for yourself. And so just to hear those stories from Nigerians or from individuals who are from Italy who say, "I never knew Nigerian and Italian culture were so close." Just to hear those stories and people saying how much the stories within my book touch them is something that I cannot even put into words. I'm so humbled by it.
How you deal with colorism in the book and how you deal with colorism on the show, you do it very well. You're very vocal and very clear. Now that you are on your third season at Bravo, does it still feel heavy being a Black woman on television with African roots?
It's heavy sometimes, I'll be honest with you. But again, this is what I signed up for. I am a dark-skinned woman and I know what I represent and I get so excited when people tell me, "I love just seeing your dark-skinned family on TV because that's something that we just don't have," and I appreciate that. There are moments where it does get heavy because not only are you dealing with the levels of individuals who may not relate to a dark-skinned woman, but also people who don't relate to someone who is from a different country. I get a level of xenophobia, I get a level of people saying, "Go back to your country." Or people saying comments that have no bearing on television, but have everything to do with the fact they don't like that I'm an immigrant. Being that I occupy those spaces, something that I am very aware of, but I don't let it drive me every single day. But I am aware.
I love that people are going to be able to see how many different sides there are to you. We know you can turn up and have a good time, but we know you're also extremely brilliant and a lot of people have trouble understanding that two things can be true. Have you felt like being on television has affected anything happening for you on the academic side?
No, I don't think so. On the academic side, my work speaks for itself. I've always shown up with red lips and long nails and been able to deliver courses to my doctoral level students. And that's something I take pride in. I've been the youngest professor at Johns Hopkins since I started there. And that's not by happenstance or by coincidence. I am there because I earned to be there. But from the TV lens, people have a hard time reconciling that I could be a professor and I could still be sexy, or I could be a professor and I could still turn up with my friends. Because in their head they have a myopic view of what it means to be a professor, and a professor is a white man in the tweed blazer talking to you, delivering a course.
They don't see Wendy as a professor. And I think that that's why it is so important that I am on TV to show that there are people who look like me that occupy this space. And I've always said to you, D. I've always said to you how one thing I do admire about you is that you too are a testament to the fact that people can occupy a space and they may not look exactly how you think that profession is. And if I had a D. Watkins when I was growing up, or if I had a Wendy Osefo when I was growing up, then I think I would've been more comfortable in my skin to say, "Yeah, I am the smart girl. Yeah, I am the girl that's going to receive an academic scholarship to a four-year institution." But yes, I'm also the girl that can turn up as well. So it's just about being your authentic self and hoping that the next generation is able to see pieces of themselves in you.
