The Tory DWP chief has been left red-faced after he admitted he did not know if he had met anyone who'd had their benefits docked.
The Work and Pensions Secretary Mel Stride made the admission when grilled by MPs on Wednesday on the Government's sanctions regime.
Pressed by the SNP MP David Linden whether he's ever met anyone who has been sanctioned, he told MPs: "I have been to Job Centres. I don't actually know.
Quizzed again, he added: "I don't know because when I've met those going that are through the system I wouldn't typically say 'Oh, my name's Mel Stride, I'm the Secretary of State, have you been sanctioned?'
"So I don't know the answer to that I'm afraid".
The Cabinet Minister also faltered in front of MPs when asked whether he knew the average a person loses when they are sanctioned.
Ms Stride first attempted to ask one of his officials, but then admitted: "Off the top of my head I wouldn't know what the average is".
Mr Linden then told the Work and Pensions Secretary it was £600 and his own constituents had told him sanctions had pushed them into "destitution" and to rely on local food banks.
But he defended the benefits sanctions regime in the hearing on Wednesday, claiming it has an important "deterrent" effect for other people claiming benefits.
He argued: "If someone is in a position where they are able to work, they are being provided with support through the benefits system, and for example they are failing to turn up to appointments with a work coach... then it's not unreasonable for their to be some sort of consequence for that."
The exchange came as Mr Stride revealed the Department for Work and Pensions would finally publish a secret report into the effectiveness of benefit sanctions.
The work was commissioned around four years ago - but was later blocked from release by Mr Stride's predecessors and the DWP in 2021.
Earlier this month the Information Commissioner's Office, however, ruled the Government must publish the report within 35 days - or risk legal action.
Ms Stride told MPs on Wednesday: Asked whether the Government will comply with the order, Mr Stride told MPs: "I can inform the Committee I have decided not to appeal.
"The information will be released. I do think it presents a very incomplete picture and I do think the reasons and rationale there would have been for not releasing it were perfectly proper and acceptable.
"But I also believe on balance of the interest that has been shown in this particular document... that it's appropriate to release it."
