Former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair has said he doesn't see a time when Scotland or Wales will be independent. Sir Tony was speaking in an interview with Michael Sheen, the actor who has played him three times.
The pair met as part of an interview for The New Statesman discussing what a "British Dream" is, the future of the Labour Party and the UK's changing role in the world. In May 1997, the Labour government of Tony Blair was elected with a promise of creating a devolved assembly in Wales which led to referendums in the September for Scotland and Wales where the majority of voters chose to establish a Scottish Parliament and a National Assembly for Wales, now the Welsh Parliament.
In the interview, Mr Sheen asked: "Can you envisage a future where an independent Scotland, an independent Wales, allow a new version of Britain to thrive?"
Read more: Can Wales afford a bank holiday for St David's Day?
To that, he replied: "I struggle. It is very similar to the Brexit thing. You can carry people along in a great tide of emotion, but when you look at the practicalities, they’re pretty severe. I think that’s why it won’t happen. It’s a perfectly reasonable debate, and you’ve got to have the debate, because the feelings are there. But I can’t envisage a situation in which Britain is stronger by no longer being Britain."
Within the interview, Mr Sheen asked: "Was the devolution done under your government an attempt to strengthen the Union? If so, do you think it has, and how can that sense of union be revived?"
Sir Tony replied: "One part of me thinks: by ensuring a Labour government is a realistic possibility. For some parts of Scotland and Wales, if people think they’ve got a Tory government forever, they despair and look for a different way out. We did devolution, yes, to strengthen the union. If you look at the history, the pressure for change in the way Scotland was governed was either going to be met with devolution or independence. The status quo was not sustainable. People forget the independence movement of the 1960s and 1970s was very strong. The same arguments apply for keeping the UK together as keeping the European Union together. In the end, there is a level at which decisions should be taken locally, but there are certain things where you will leverage the power of the bigger unit.
"We created the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly, the peace process in Northern Ireland delivered the Northern Ireland Assembly, we created the position of mayor of London. I didn’t feel the union was under threat in our time in government, but it came afterwards. It was bubbling up, and then there was the Scottish independence referendum in 2014, and independence was defeated.
"But Brexit, frankly, has given a new lease of life to this, and there’s no way out of that. I worry most about Northern Ireland. I still think, ultimately, people in Scotland will feel their economic interests are with England, whereas what Brexit has done in Northern Ireland has significantly weakened the Union."
