Susanna Reid chided Home Office minister Dame Diana Johnson for repeatedly saying that axing winter fuel payments for millions of pensioner was a “difficult decision”.
The Good Morning Britain presenter took Dame Diana to task over the controversial policy which is opposed by dozens of MPs and unions.
Sir Keir Starmer’s government argues that restricting winter fuel payments to those pensioners receiving pension credit is part of measures to plug a £22 billion black hole in the public finances which it inherited from Rishi Sunak’s administration.
Ms Reid challenged Dame Diana on how the cuts to winter fuel payments could be justified.
She responded: “It’s a really difficult decision.”
She claimed that at the Home Office alone, the new Government had found a funding black hole of £6.4 billion.
“When you know that the Chancellor then has to look across all of Government and look at the black holes that are in each department, she has said it’s £22 billion overall, that’s why really difficult decisions are having to be made,” she added.
From this autumn, older people in England and Wales not on pension credit or other means-tested benefits will not get winter fuel payments, worth between £100 and £300.
The minister stressed that the poorest pensioners would still get the special winter fuel payout.
But fellow ITV presenter Ed Balls, himself a former Labour Cabinet minister, stressed that pension experts had identified nearly one million pensioners who are living below the official poverty line who do not qualify for the pension credit so they will lose the winter fuel payment.
Dame Diana said: “I’m not shying away from the fact this is a really difficult decision.”
She also urged pensioners who are eligible for the pension credit who do not claim it to do so, so they would then continue getting the winter fuel allowance.
“It’s really important that we recognise that this is a difficult decision, not an easy one for anybody but the Chancellor having looked across government, looked at the state of the economic inheritance that we had, has put forward this proposal but to support the poorest and most vulnerable....,” she added.
Mr Balls pressed the minister, though, whether the policy was “fair”.
Dame Diana stressed there would be more measures in the Budget in October, with Chancellor Rachel Reeves having already flagged possible tax rises and more spending cuts.
But Mr Balls probed whether it was “fair”, and she responded: “It’s a really difficult decision.”
Ms Reid then interjected: “Can I just ask on behalf of our viewers, can you stop saying it’s a difficult decision.
“We all understand that you have to make choices, you have made this particular choice, you didn’t find it difficult because you made it..so is it the right decision?”
Dame Diana said: “I’m a Home Office minister, this is a decision by the Chancellor...”
Pressed again if it was the “right decision”, she added: “She (the Chancellor) has got the overview that I haven’t got...I’ve got an overview of what is happening in the Home Office.”
Saying she would vote for the restriction, Dame Diana explained: “I will reluctantly have to vote for it...I recognise that we are making some really difficult decisions...”
But Ms Reid interrupted again: “I’m going to say on behalf...can you stop saying it’s a difficult decision..”
Some 50 Labour MPs, including some in London, may decide not to back the controversial policy which is opposed by unions calling for a U-turn.
Ms Reeves was meeting the parliamentary Labour party on Monday to explain the decision and try to limit the revolt.
