In the far off days when England were a Six Nations force, observers questioned whether also-ran teams deserved their place in rugby’s greatest championship.
Italy, with their glacial pace of progress, obviously copped it. As did Scotland after England denied them a single point on their home patch at Murrayfield one year.
So what are we to make of England, rugby’s richest and best resourced nation, after losing more games than they won for a THIRD straight year?
On Saturday England added a fourth place finish to their third last year. They finished fifth twice in four years before that. If not grounds for expulsion it is certainly cause for embarrassment.
This is a country with more Grand Slams, championships and Triple Crowns to their name than any other who, since the last World Cup, have lost as many Six Nations games (10) as they have won.
They finished 2022 ranked outside the world’s top 10 in pretty much every measure of rugby quality and now their new coach admits fitness is not up to scratch.
To think they were 80, admittedly long and painful, minutes from being crowned world champions in 2019, the year they hammered both France and Ireland out of sight.
The past four years have brought a chronic return, played out to the ‘we are where we are’ soundbite on repeat which is really starting to grate.
Of greater relevance to England’s plight is that world leading English coaches Andy Farrell, Mike Catt and Shaun Edwards are 'where they are' - with Ireland and France respectively.
Borthwick is a good man and has the potential to become a top coach, but he is not a miracle worker. For timeframe think Graham Potter rather than Pep Guardiola. He will get England’s ducks in a row and given the summer to work with his squad and what is an unbelievably kind World Cup draw, should deliver England to the quarter-finals.
From there anything is possible but, you might not want to bet on it. The truth is England are a long way behind Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, even Scotland. That team some thought were not good enough for the Six Nations. How times have changed.
