Plenty of differences distinguish Wales senior managers Gemma Grainger and Rob Page from each other.
For starters, Page is a self-professed tracksuit manager. "It’s ridiculous what they wear on the sidelines now,” he says. Grainger, on the other hand, is a navy-power-suit-and-no-socks kind of gal, which is her method of switching into “game-mode”. Grainger’s first pair of boots were Mizuno, Page’s were Hummel. Where Grainger savours a goal "all the time”, Page emphatically prefers a last-ditch tackle all day long. And between top bins or a Panenka, it’s the 47-year-old Welshman from the Valleys who would go for death-or-glory.
Even so, as the two managers converse with WalesOnline on behalf of M&S Food’s Eat Well, Play Well campaign at a grassroots session in Barry, it becomes evident that the pair share more similarities than not. They’re both football mad — get Grainger talking about football at your own peril, warns one Wales international. They're both dog people, enjoy summer getaways to the beach, prefer pizza to pasta, are more than capable of putting the average football fan to shame with their keepy-uppy skills, and when asked whether either enjoy marmite on anything, both managers’ noses twitch in near identical degrees of disgust.
These are, admittedly, negligible character traits when isolated, but together they help crack open a door into the world of the two managers striving to make international football history with Wales. Not that you’d ever need to pry. Both are hearts-on-their-sleeves kind of managers, another tick in the growing similarity box.
Still, as the pair share a chat in the Jenner Park clubhouse on a balmy and grey Monday afternoon amid intermittent wafts of fresh fajitas courtesy of M&S, it is the irrepressible passion for football and, more specifically, Wales’ position within it, which consummately intertwines them.
“Ambition,” Page says almost immediately when asked to choose one word to describe himself as a manager and another for Grainger. “I know I’m meant to pick one, but I’m using it for both, because I see that in Gemma. I see a complete change in the game since she’s taken over: how aggressive they are, how they show teams the respect they deserve but now they get after it. That’s something we do as well. We had the ambition to know we’ll compete in a World Cup. Gemma is ambitious enough now to get this team to qualify for a major tournament.”
Ambition has become the overarching theme for Welsh football, and this year, that ambition has turned into a tangible buzz. In June, the men’s senior team qualified for this year’s World Cup in Qatar with their 1-0 play-off final victory over Ukraine, exorcising 64 years of footballing demons and extending their hot streak of major tournament qualification to three since 2016.
Grainger, meanwhile, has helped unleash a version of the women’s team long in the making. The effort has been duly rewarded with a potential World Cup 2023 play-off berth which rests, not on an insurance policy or another team’s hiccup, but on the team's volition as they take on Greece and Slovenia in their final two qualifiers in early September.
“I think we’ve done our talking on the pitch with the teams,” Page says. “Welsh football has never been in such a good place.”
That both squads are simultaneously relishing similar levels of success does not rub off as a cheeky coincidence to either manager. Welsh football's journey from international football punching bag to competitive contender is multifaceted, they say: a combination of the quality within the senior and development squads, the underlying principles embedded via the Welsh Way – a footballing identity which transcends mere build-up play and quick-thinking transitions, Page says – and, of course, the players’ unquenchable passion for their country.
“Seeing the pride they have, although the men’s and women’s teams don’t spend an awful lot of time together in terms of how the camps work, it’s identical,” Grainger says. “Jess [Fishlock] has played for some of the best teams in the world, but there’s only one thing that matters most to her and that’s putting on the shirt. When she calls me, it’s about Wales.”
From where they stand, Welsh football was on an inevitable collision course with success. Yet, failing to mention Grainger and Page’s influence within it would be remiss. Page was thrust into the spotlight as indefinite care-taker manager following Ryan Giggs’ arrest in November 2020, shouldered with navigating a European Championship and World Cup qualification. Last May, Grainger took over the reins from Wales and Arsenal legend Jayne Ludlow after another failed major tournament qualification attempt in Ludlow's six-year tenure.
In manifold ways, the expectations were huge and complicated, and the pair have defied them. Mention this, of course, and both will work ridiculously hard to shift any praise far and away from themselves. It's in keeping with their managerial characters. Both run tight ships, emphasise camaraderie and communication and focus all attention on the immediate reality ahead (which is, true to their oeuvre, always the next match).
Together, they are a unique force of geniality, quick wit and salt-of-the-earth realism. That neither manager gives a toss about the potential mystic powers of lucky pants or pre-match beans on toast for an extra kick of good match fortune shouldn’t come as a shock (both chuckle at the suggestions). The intangibles in which they do place stock are those of old-fashioned hard work, qualities Page and Grainger hold paramount due to their upbringings in the historically working-class areas of the Rhondda and Middlesbrough respectively.
“When I was part of the [Wales] under-21s, the biggest thing for me was the culture,” explains Page, who worked with a number of dual-national players rising through the ranks, including Neco Williams and Brennan Johnson. “When you’re down in the pits, coal in your face and you’re drilling for 12 hours and you come out, you’re not going to whinge about anything. We’re asking you to play for 95 minutes. If you've got to go and track back a runner in the 95th minute, that’s what you do. You go out and represent what a supporter wants. Those are our values, you don’t complain about working hard.”
Grainger agrees, adding that the background provides a necessary perspective on and off the touchline.
“Where I’m from, the steelworks in Middlesbrough, that’s part of what makes you who you are,” she says, recalling how when the team bus drove past Port Talbot to Llanelli for a recent home qualifier, the smell reminded her of home. “You work hard. You see your dad going to work early in the morning and you don’t see him until late. So it’s really important to understand where you’re from and represent it. And every time I’m in Wales, that working-class attitude and nature comes to life. It feels like home when I’m here.”
That is not to say that Page and Grainger don’t ever need a break. The nature of being an international manager is challenging. The job occurs in fevers: a patch of high stakes followed by a vacuum of waiting. Neither is coy about the stresses. “It saps the absolute life out of me,” Page admits after detailing a day in the life of an international manager (wake up, staff meeting, physio meeting, medical team meeting, a prayer that no one has suffered an injury overnight, training, more meetings, another training session, plan the next day's training session, pray, again, that no-one is hurt, all while keeping one eye on the game ahead. Somewhere in there, breakfast is eaten).
It bears the question whether either manager takes something of a sabbatical from football during the breaks. Grainger and Page cast fleeting glances at each other before Page cheekily defers the floor to his fellow manager. Grainger sheepishly grins.
“No, for me, it’s all football,” Grainger admits. “It is. If I’m not in the women’s camp or at the clubs watching the players, I’m at the men’s game. It’s nice in the men’s international windows because I get to sit back out of the crowd and watch Rob go through it. I do like going on holidays though (southern Spain was her selection this summer). Apart from that, it’s football, as sad as it sounds.”
“I’m a little different,” Rob admits. “When I’m back home, I completely switch off, get away from it. And then I’ll start watching games, speaking to the players again, get the games back. Then I’m raring to go again.”
We talk about the word "addiction", and whether the hyper-intensity of international camp is, as crass it sounds, a drug which inevitably pulls them back in when they attempt a getaway.
“Winning is,” Page says without skipping a beat. “Absolutely, winning is. Losing is the worst thing in the world. You can’t get away from it, can you?” Grainger supplies a confirming nod. “I go back and put the game on straight away," Page continues. "Straight away. What did we do wrong? Why did we do that? But winning, that’s the best feeling in the world. You can’t buy it.”
Wales fans know that reality better than most. Grainger is up next to replenish the feeling vis-a-vis her greatest challenge yet as Wales manager. She is more than aware of the pressure.
“The biggest thing we’ve seen and the biggest thing we were determined to learn from [the men’s team] is in terms of playoffs, the competitive games, really looking at a team that was brave enough to go out there and play,” she says. “For me, the Austria game really stands out because of the way the team delivered on the night. I know how difficult those games are to get over the line. The bravery to step up in those moments, that’s what the best teams do, that’s what the most successful teams do and that’s what tournament teams do.”
Turning Wales into a consistent tournament country is the long-term goal, but Grainger and Page also have work of their own off the pitch. The pair enjoy frequent phone calls to compare tactical notes and to offer a friendly check-in, especially before an international camp, while always attending each other's home matches. Making that type of inter-squad cross-over ubiquitous across the Welsh football gamut is next on the agenda.
“It’s nice because when Rob and I speak, it’s not really the men’s team and the women’s team. It’s football," Grainger says. "So if Rob or myself are preparing for a camp, that’s where the conversation will go. We’re both preparing for the same game.”
Such is the legacy both hope to leave with these squads, among a number of other successes.
“The men are on their journey in terms of World Cup qualification but the women will qualify for a major tournament, and these players will play a big part in inspiring the next generation of players here,” Grainger says. “We’re in a position now where the players are at each others’ games. I am, Rob is, and I think that’s quite natural. It’s not forced in any way. So for us, the more we can do that moving forward, that’s exactly what we want to do.”
Gemma Grainger and Rob Page are working with M&S Food’s Eat Well, Play Well campaign, offering kids the chance to win a training masterclass with the Wales teams. Go to marksandspencer.com/football to find out more.
