Long before Andrew Tate became a household name, incels and misogynists would find each other online.
But there’s one corner of the internet that might help prevent falling prey to misogynistic radicalisation.
Joshua Thorburn, a PhD student at Monash University, was intrigued when he stumbled upon a Reddit page dedicated to people who were leaving the incel community. Then he found another for those leaving behind the “red pill” ideology.
The forums were flooded with people quitting the movements that thrived online and inflicted some detrimental real-life consequences.
“You can learn so much about why people are leaving, why these people are getting de-radicalised from these spaces,” Mr Thorburn told The New Daily.
“But also, you learn a bit about why people are becoming radicalised, and I think both are really important angles from the perspective of researcher.”
‘Incels’ are online communities of young men who believe they cannot attract women, and therefore become hostile to women and sexually active men.
Mr Thorburn recently authored a report about these forums, in hopes that more people who take up extremist ideologies can find a way out.
He said Reddit forums such as “IncelExit” or “ExRedPill” are not a silver bullet solution. But they offer comfort through lived experience and advice.
Many people who post on these forums are trying to escape their beliefs, which they mainly found online.
“It started off innocently enough, I was just listening to the videos talking about the hypocrisy of feminism. Eventually though, I went deeper,” one person wrote on one of the forums.
“This is when I found the toxic things talking about ‘female nature’. For months, I believed everything I read, and I tried to apply that to my life.
“The only thing that happened was that I became something I hated, a sexist asshole who dehumanised women.”
Inside the ‘manosphere’
The manosphere is a collection of websites, forums, groups and figures that promote toxic masculinity and misogyny.
In the manosphere, the idea of taking the metaphorical red pill means people’s eyes are opened to the “truth” of how awful women are.
“I think the most important feature is how these groups think about dating and relationships,” Mr Thorburn says.
“So the gist of the ‘red pill’ [theory] is that women are supposedly innately attracted to alpha males, they consider these sort of alpha men to be quite rich, muscular and dominant to the point of being quite mean.”
Incels, or people who are involuntarily celibate, have both similar and differing beliefs. Mr Thorburn says they tend to be “decidedly more pessimistic and nihilistic”.
It’s important to note that not all incels hold misogynistic views and not all incels are men.
What these communities have in common is the belief that women are often to blame. Both ideologies are harmful, Mr Thorburn said.
“They are hurting both people that are believing in these ideologies, but also there is research that shows that there’s a correlation between misogynistic traits and violence against women,” he said, adding some who hold these ideas have been known to commit lone offender attacks.
He also noted that ASIO mentioned that it is worried about incel ideology and the risk of lone offender attacks.
Empathy needed
While going through the IncelExit and ExRedPill forums, Mr Thorburn was able to see some similarities, but noted that all de-radicalised stories are unique.
In a lot of cases, people became radicalised to extremist ideology when they were in a bad place, struggling mentally or suffering from poor self-esteem. Some then turned to figures like Andrew Tate for guidance.
Balance is needed when approaching the manosphere. While some hold vile, misogynistic views, there’s no denying that people are gravitating towards these ideas due to hardship in their lives.
“I think there is a need to have some empathy for the people that might have fallen down this rabbit hole,” Mr Thorburn said.
Through his research, Mr Thorburn shows that people can change the way they think and act, though he notes it isn’t an easy or linear process and some may never completely be rid of their sexist views.
In one post on the forums, a user said they recently “made out” with an attractive woman, but expressed concerns they had lingering incel views.
“I feel like I’m poisoned by those thoughts,” they said.
“A very attractive and smart, awesome girl is obviously into me and enjoyed kissing me for almost an hour. Yet I still feel ugly and worthless.”
While Mr Thorburn supports efforts to include respectful relationships content in school curriculum, he recognises that people are being radicalised online, so it’s possible for people to find a way out online.
It wasn’t so long ago that Andrew Tate was making headlines and his misogyny was seeping into classrooms and creating an uphill battle for teachers, after teens saw a video of him online.
“The reality is a lot of students are just not going to listen to their teachers no matter what they say,” Mr Thorburn said.
However, what makes him optimistic is that those same students might find an anti-incel forum, start to think about the things Tate has said and consider how his content is damaging to men, as well as women.
“I don’t propose that these forums are a silver bullet. But I do think some people on the forum, you know, get past these beliefs too,” he said.
The importance of tackling toxic beliefs
Mr Thorburn said it is important to research such spaces because they provide insight into how people fall into the manosphere and how to get out.
What some of his research is already suggesting is that people who follow red pill beliefs might physically, mentally or emotionally abuse their partners.
Hateful and harmful ideologies need to be countered, Mr Thorburn said.
“Violence against women is too prolific an issue in Australia,” he said.
“It’s the most pressing within the criminal justice system all around Australia.”
