In November last year, there were a flurry of reports in the Indian media on a waste-to-energy plant in Delhi’s Okhla that causes significant health risks to people living nearby.
All these reports cited the same source – an investigative piece in The New York Times by journalist Maria Abi-Habib. Currently based in Mexico, Maria spent five years, between 2019 and 2024, to report on the story. She found the plant, operated by a subsidiary of the Jindal Group, pumps “as much as 10 times the legal amount of dioxins” into Delhi’s skies, and that its workers say it was “never regulated”.
In this special episode of Reporters Without Orders, Newslaundry’s Pratyush Deep talks to Maria about how she stumbled upon this story. Her husband had been working on a series on air pollution in India – what Maria describes as “the biggest topic of concern, or should be, for most families and the government”. During the course of it, he met residents of Sukhdev Vihar, where the plant is located.
“They said they have been living there for a while and once the plant started, that is when their health problems started,” Maria says. “So, we decided to take a look and what we found was pretty incredible and also a little bit horrifying.”
Maria also explains the challenges she faced in reporting the story, and why she thinks Delhi’s air pollution crisis persists.
“It is up to the government to take a look at the story and say why this plant is continuing to get the permission to expand its operations, why this Jindal family subsidiary continues to get more plants,” she says, adding that the group has “seven across the nation”. “If they can’t responsibly manage this plant, then why should they be given others?”
Watch.
Produced and edited by Saif Ali Ekram, recorded by Anil Kumar.
This special episode is part of our new collaborative campaign to tackle air pollution. Here’s how you can join the Fight To Breathe. Click here to power this campaign.
Sting: [00:00:00] This is a News Laundry podcast and you're listening to Reporters Without Orders.
Pratyush: Order, order. Welcome to another episode of Reporters Without Orders, a podcast where we discuss what made news, what did not, and what absolutely should not have. Today we have with us New York Times reporter Maria Abi Habib.
Uh, she's a journalist with New York Times and she did the, you know, one of the groundbreaking investigation into the Kimarpur Okla Waste to Energy Plant in the heart of our capital city. Her report brought the spotlight back to this Kimarpur Okla Waste to Energy Plant. It reveals that the plant was emitting toxic and harmful gases and poses significant health risks to the million people living nearby.
Welcome to the podcast, Maria.
Maria: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. I miss living in India, so.
Pratyush: Nice. So, Maria, uh, your investigation took almost five years to [00:01:00] complete. So, uh, can you tell us how the story started and, uh, what, uh, brought your attention to this plant in, uh, you know, Okhla?
Maria: Um, so the way that it started actually was my husband.
He was doing a series about pollution in India. Um, Um, obviously that is the biggest topic of concern or should be, um, for most families, um, and the government and he had spoken to several people looking at different angles. And the 1 thing he came away with with was that there were residents in where, you know, the plant is basically located that we're all experiencing, or many of them were claiming to experience health.
Problems because of the plant, and they had said that basically once the plant that they've been living there for a while, once the plant started up, that's when their health problems started. Um, and so we decided to take a look and what we found was pretty, um, incredible and also a little bit horrifying,
Pratyush: right?
So, uh, like, you know, what [00:02:00] are the, what are the key steps and challenges involving this kind of a report, uh, which is of this scale and complexities? Can you walk us through the process of this reporting?
Maria: Sure. I mean, well, the first thing that we tried to do is, um, and I think every responsible journalist does is contact the plant, right?
Contact the people who own the plant, contact the people who operate the plant. We got zero response from them over five years. We tried and tried phone calls, emails, WhatsApp. Uh, at one point, uh, Sandy Dutt, who, um, helps manage the plant, Basically accused me of harassing him before hanging up the phone. I mean, really kind of like interesting behavior, uh, for somebody who's just trying to seek the truth and also give the other side their chance to respond, which is what we're supposed to do as journalists.
They proved time and time again that they had zero interest in responding until the report came out, and then they were extremely upset, but they missed. It was their own fault for not responding [00:03:00] to our many extremely detailed questions. Telling them what we had found, which was that over the five years, testing of the air around the plant showed that that plant had, um, you know, outrageously high levels of things like lead and cadmium and arsenic that people were breathing in and that, you know, we'd set up a control at another part in Delhi at the same time to monitor what was being emitted into the air at that other part of Delhi that was about India.
Nine kilometers away or so, and in that other testing area, it didn't have the same amounts of lead or arsenic or cadmium, and these are things that cause extremely terrible and nasty heart, heart disease, lung disease, bone disease, I mean, you name it, I mean, cognitive impairment for your kids, I mean, we all know how every Indian mother and father is so cool.
Thank you. Hopeful for their child to be better than they are to excel at education. I mean, India comes up with some of [00:04:00] the best doctors and scientists. And I mean, these are things that really affect children's brain development. It lowers their IQ. I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty incredible what we found around the plant in terms of the heavy chemicals that were being emitted into the air.
Or that were present near and then what we did was that we tested the ash and we what we did to make sure that the ash was actually from the plant because they have questioned whether or not we have tested the ash from the plant is what when we follow the trucks. We followed them from Oklah to it was very interesting
Pratyush: part of the story.
Yeah.
Maria: I mean, you have to, you have to make sure, cause you, you know, that these, that, that everything, when you are writing about a big company, especially a company that's basically owned by the Jindal family, one of India's most powerful, as we all know, you have to make sure that everything lines up and that, and that the facts of the facts, there's no room for assumption.
There's no room for error. So we [00:05:00] followed many of the trucks and then at many points, we would ask the truck drivers as they were dumping. Where are you coming from? Oklahoma Waste Energy Plant. Do you have a receipt? They gave us the receipt with the Jindal ITF logo right on the receipt saying this truck holds this amount of this, this, you know, many, Uh, kilos or tons of ash and we are dumping it right in this neighborhood.
So it was very, very little, um, doubt that the ash was coming from the plant. And what we found in the ash was, um, concerning. It concerned the Johns Hopkins scientists that we, uh, we passed the, the, the results to, um, and even Indian scientists. And, um, what we found was that the cadmium levels were through the roof.
Everybody knows lead, but what's spoken about less is cadmium. Cadmium is considered to be one of the nastiest chemicals, um, and it's emitted through things like batteries. And we found kids playing in this stuff, [00:06:00] covered in cadmium ash, um, and it was seeping into people's homes. Um, one student was, you know, trying to study for his exams, but was just, there was ash everywhere, and so he spent so much time, wiping the ash off of his desk.
I mean, these are just things like we're humans, right? And these are things that should concern us all. Um, I don't want to be breathing that stuff or have it covering my kids clothes or toys or food. And people were very upset and it felt really sad because they felt like they had no options, that they had tried to work through the government to try to get the plant to follow regulations.
And, um, many of the residents kept saying, you know, but the regulations just keep being. violated and even government regulators continue to find that over the years the government was violating or sorry the plant was violating government regulations.
Pratyush: Right even yeah you you mentioned in your story that the Indian government officials were aware of the plant releasing these toxic substances and they are quite aware of the [00:07:00] violations done by this plant but they they failed to take any action or they willingly do it we don't know about it but like you mentioned in your story about this so uh can you elaborate on these findings and like you know And what signifies this attitude of the Indian official?
Maria: So I mean, some of the regulatory reports said, you know, it doesn't seem like you're monitoring your emissions correctly, which is huge, right? Because the plants only function if you are monitoring your emissions correctly. You know, these plants can be safe. They have a track record of. Existing in Paris, existing in Copenhagen, existing in parts of China and, but they have to be regulated like everything.
And so, and emissions need to be monitored because what is the difference between a waste energy plant and an open fire garbage pit is the fact that emissions are monitored and the proper chemicals are used to try to trap those extremely dangerous gases. Chemicals like lead and cadmium and arsenic, et cetera.
And so the government [00:08:00] found that, you know, emissions were not being monitored was one of the complaints. Another of the complaints were, Hey, you are releasing, and this was twice in one year. Um, the CDCP found this and they said, you are fi, you are emitting extremely high levels of dioxins and fons. One report said you were releasing three times the permissible allowed limits.
Another report later that year said you were, we checked you a few months ago, we said, what are you doing? You're, you're emitting way too much. Now you're emitting even more. You went from emitting three times to 10 times. And diopsins are extremely scary because Those great birth defects and all sorts of cancers and 1 of the things that, um, you know, if you are American, then you have, or if you're Vietnamese, you've heard about dioxins because it's used.
It was used by the US military in a terrible campaign against Vietnamese. Vietnamese [00:09:00] territory in the notorious herbicide called Agent Orange. Now, the Vietnam War ended many decades ago, but dioxins are so nasty that they continue to contaminate the soil and the rivers of Vietnam and continue to cause huge health problems.
That war ended, what, 50 years ago, 40 years ago? So the fact that the plant is, according to government regulators, emitting these dioxins should concern everybody.
Pratyush: But they're just fining, I think, around five lakh rupees to this plant, CPCB, like that you mentioned about these violations. Yeah,
Maria: at some point.
Now, I mean, you tell me whether or not, I don't know. I mean, I think every reasonable citizen should think, is five lakh rupees enough to change a giant corporation's mind when, you know,
Pratyush: Yeah.
Maria: They're making hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year. Well, this one subsidiary of what is known as the Jindal Group, probably, I don't know, I mean, if you're fined five [00:10:00] dollars or five rupees for, I don't know, throwing your trash out the window, do you think you're going to think again about throwing trash out your window?
You're only going to think about it if it's maybe like a carore, right?
Pratyush: Yeah, definitely.
Maria: Whatever. So, I mean, I think it's, it's up to the Indian government to think, okay, we're giving some fines, but are they enough to actually change behavior?
Pratyush: Right. Even NZT, the National Green Tribunal, the green body in India, they have also favored in, like, they have also ordered in favor of the plant, plant in 2017.
Their orders are said that the plant was violating Earlier, but now, you know, it can run with, uh, monitoring by the CPCB, Central Pollution Control Board. So, uh, as you have rightly talked about the CPCB and this NZT order, what do you, uh, think of India's green regulations? Like, are they stringent enough or, uh, there are room for significant, uh, improvement?
Maria: I mean, I'm not, I really shouldn't give an opinion here because it's not really about what I think, right? You're an Indian citizen. I [00:11:00] don't know if you have children, but I'm sure you definitely have loved ones that live in Delhi. And I think that, you know, everybody knows that this is the issue. Air pollution is one of the biggest issues.
New Delhi is an incredible city. When you talk to people, when they talk about their quality of life, the thing that is holding them back from truly, truly loving the city and all of their capacity and all of their heart is the air pollution. So, if the air pollution is not getting better, and we see that that this company continues to, according to government's own regulators.
We're supposed to be monitoring the plant and they continue to violate those regulations. Then maybe the regulations aren't good enough. I don't know, because they continue to violate according to the government's own regulators. Again, that is not my opinion. That is your own government saying it.
Pratyush: Right.
But, you know, waste to energy plants are often, you know, presented as a solution to the, uh, this garbage crisis that the [00:12:00] Indian cities are facing, right? These days, you know, so from a global perspective, uh, you know, uh, what do you think about the viability and effectiveness of these plants?
Maria: Look, there's no perfect solution for anything.
Garbage is a problem. And as the world gets wealthier, we consume more. I mean, when I lived in India, I was amazed how Amazon was just right at the, at your fingertips, right? Whatever you wanted, boom, it would be there, Amazon. And I would love to go to the markets as well to go buy things. But you know, people are getting busier.
They're working harder and The more that they're consuming through these very inefficient and environmentally harmful ways, like Amazon, which is not just an India problem, but a global problem, you're going to have more waste and, um, and you're going to want to buy things like more plastic toys for your kids.
Or, you know, you're going to want to buy, I don't know, some packaged food, um, that comes in a plastic package. So either we tell [00:13:00] everybody you can't, you can no longer consume as much, which is just never going to happen, let's be realistic. I wish we lived in a world like that, but we don't. Or you can say, the problem is there.
Let's think of a solution and these plans have worked well in the United States, Canada, France, Denmark, China, China, which was even worse than New Delhi. I mean, Beijing had terrible air pollution 15 years ago that made Delhi look like Geneva in terms of its own environment. And Beijing got his act together and it's now the air quality is pretty good.
Delhi seems to only be getting worse, right? And so I think the thing is, is that we are consuming, these plants are considered to be needed to run because we're running out of space in this world. We don't have enough housing, for instance, for people. We just are running out of land, and this is a huge problem in India.
There's just not enough land for people [00:14:00] to graze their cows on, or to live on. And so, what is the solution that many countries are coming Coming to is these waste energy plants, but it is incumbent on the government and the companies that run them to run them responsibly.
Pratyush: Right. So at one critical point in your story was about the carbon credit market, like, you know, which seems to underpin the business model of this kind of green plants, like green waste to energy plants.
So, uh, can you explain how this carbon credit market factors into it and like, you know, uh, how, what are the implications of this?
Maria: So the carbon credit market is a global market and, um, anybody can buy into it or sell. If you are selling, you have to go through different processes to make sure that whatever project that you're putting forward onto the market has green credits, it could be a waste energy plant.
It could be a, I mean, anything, a recycling plant or whatever it is. And you go through a process whereby the [00:15:00] UN with a local, a local operator takes a look at whatever the project is and says, yes, it's green. It meets standards. Let's let it go. You know, go ahead and start selling green credits on the market.
Well, wealthy countries that have, want to continue to exceed their carbon credit emissions, um, allowable emissions, um, will buy into these markets and also companies will too. So like airline industry, for instance, is, is, is very much heavily involved in this market. Huge emitter of green gases, right? Or carbons.
And so the Jindal group through the subsidiary. Right, which is the opal waste energy plant has made hundreds of thousands of dollars. It seems through, um, waste energy plants, including the notorious opal waste energy plant, which is what we based our story on and all by saying that we are green and what this is the V.
Our residents association has said is you are not green. You are [00:16:00] basically, um, you know, the source we believe for many of our health problems. And. The pollution that you're emitting is so great that you should not even be considered a legitimate green project. And you should not, you should, you have no business.
According to, you know, to these residents of actually making money by pretending to be green.
Pratyush: Yeah. So, uh, like you have, uh, you were in Delhi from 2018 to 21, uh, as a co uh, New York Times correspondent, right? If I'm not wrong, yes. So you have seen the pollution in Delhi firsthand. So in your opinion, what is like in our capital city is, uh, you know, falling sword in effort to combat this pollution?
Like. As you have talked to already about the Beijing, like how they have tackled this crisis in, if you like, you know, talk about specifically in Delhi, what, uh, did you see, you know, what is lacking here in our capital?
Maria: I mean, I just think it's, what's lacking is political will, right? Because I mean, I know it's not just one thing.
It's not like this waste to [00:17:00] energy plant is the source of all of Delhi's air pollution problems. Um, but it is definitely a source and it's right in the heart of the middle of the city, You know, a multi pronged approach, I think, is what experts have said the government needs to do and the government needs to get serious on, which is, you know, everything from the crop burning that happens, um, across Punjab and around Delhi, you know, there's no reason why we, why India should be using ancient methods to get rid of crops.
Uh, the government could instead be, be helping these farmers by investing in these machines that basically help clear the crops in an environmentally responsible way. You could do things like regulate the waste to energy plant, things like that. It's not just one solution. It's, it's, it's. It's, it's mini.
Um, but whether the political will is there, who knows, but all I can say is that the pollution has gotten worse. And I saw it myself just in, in the period of time I lived there.
Pratyush: Yeah. So my last [00:18:00] question to you is like, you know, about the story only, uh, what impact did you hope to achieve with this investigation?
And do you think the story had a necessary impact on the policymakers in India?
Maria: Um, I'm not sure if it had an impact on the policymakers in India. I know that, I mean, definitely, um, you know, the plant itself was pretty upset and wrote us a letter, but there was nothing to correct in the story because our reporting was extremely solid.
And I think that once we presented to them what we had. You know, it was too great of an issue for them to continue to take forward, hopefully, and yeah, we'll see. I don't know. I mean, I have no idea if it's going to be, you know, one writes these stories and hope it creates some sort of impact and it's up to the government to take a look at the story and say, why does this plant continue to get?
The permission to expand its operations. Why does, um, this Jindal [00:19:00] family subsidiary continue to get more plants? I mean, they have something like seven that they're I have got one
Pratyush: more.
Maria: Yeah, well, they have seven across the nation that they're in the process of building or have built and delivered. Um, and making them the largest by far in this field.
So, you know, if they can't responsibly manage this plant, then why should they be given others to, to build and manage? Um, but, you know, I mean, I'm just a journalist, so I can't actually implement any regulations, you know, but if the government's own regulations are being violated, then it's up to the government to implement those regulations.
Pratyush: Yeah, Maria, thanks a lot for speaking to us and your story, like, you know, as a journalist or as a, you know, citizen of this country, we really, you know, it was very impressive. And it was very, you know, very intriguing to know about many of the facts that we didn't even know, because we knew about the some of this protest by this residents were going on for almost a decade.
But it gradually it fizzled out with the NZT [00:20:00] ordering in favor of the plant. So even Indian journalist also at some point, stopped covering the issue. And, you know, You, your investigation brought the spotlight again to this plant and now people are again talking about it. We are also doing a story on this plant.
So yeah, nice speaking to you and, uh, we like, you know, we see all the best for your future works.
Maria: Good luck. Take care. Thanks so much for having me.
Pratyush: Thank you so much, Maria. With this, this episode of Reporters Without Orders is adjourned.
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