This week, host Tanishka Sodhi is joined by Newslaundry’s Manisha Pande and Shivnarayan Rajpurohit.
Manisha reported on press freedom in Kashmir from ground zero. She speaks about her interviews and conversations with journalists in the valley, who described an intensifying clampdown on media, a sense of suffocation, and censorship, particularly after the abrogation of Article 370.
Shivnarayan reported on an Adani-operated coal mine in Chhattisgarh that received environmental clearance despite a National Green Tribunal order. He delved into how these clearances were granted and the loopholes used to violate orders passed by the NGT.
Tune in.
Timecodes
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:01:26 - Media in Kashmir
00:27:16 - Violation of NGT orders
00:39:52 - Recommendations
Recommendations
Shivnarayan
Manisha
The Rohingya Suffer Real Horrors. So Why Are Some of Their Stories Untrue?
Tanishka
Indian village midwives make a shocking confession - BBC World Service Documentaries
Produced and edited by Saif Ali Ekram, recorded by Anil Kumar.
RWO 339
Sting: [00:00:00] This is a News Laundry Podcast, and you're listening to Reporters Without Orders.
Tanishka: Order, order. Hello, and welcome to Reporters Without Orders, a podcast where we talk about what made news, what didn't, and some things that absolutely shouldn't have. I'm your host, Tanishka Sodhi, and we're joined by two of my News Laundry colleagues today.
The first is a special guest, Manisha Pandey. I'm sure you all are familiar with her work, so I will spare the, uh, introduction. Hi Manisha. Same place, different, uh, show.
Manisha: Yes. Very happy to be On Reporters Without Orders.
Tanishka: Manisha has just returned from an election trail in Jammu and Kashmir. We're going to be discussing her report, especially her story from the ground, tied Kashmir's media crisis.
If we speak, we'll get a call, want to go home, not jail. Our second guest is News Rajpurohit. Hi, Shiv. How are you? Hi, good. Shiv's story from this week is titled Despite NGT order, an Adani operated [00:01:00] coal mine got environmental clearance in Chhattisgarh. So we're going to be discussing that. Let's start with Manisha's story, which is a 360 degree story about the media mahal in Kashmir.
So Manisha, since 2019, we've all been aware of the clampdown of media in Kashmir. And especially since you follow it so closely, you know about this very well. So what really came as a surprise to you on ground while reporting on this?
Manisha: Yeah, that's a very good question because actually News Laundry not just before at the time of 2019 But before that also we've kept a very close eye on Kashmir and the media scenario there.
It's known to be a place with a very vibrant Media ecosystem you have lots of newspapers lots of journalists not just in Kashmir in the valley, but also in New Delhi So it has this vibrant you know, scenario, which changed quite a bit in 2019. And, uh, I remember the first report that Ayush had done when the abrogation had happened.
We had headlined it pen [00:02:00] drives and gumption, which was about how journalists, because there was a complete internet blackout. They were writing their stories, putting it on a pen drive and then giving it to a colleague, whoever was coming to Delhi to give it to their offices. That was the scenario under which these guys had to report what had happened, the impact of abrogation.
Since then, you know, you guys have done reports. You've done reports. So many of our News Laundry colleagues have done reports on journalists arrested under PSA, under UAPA, what's happened to the newspapers there, but I was still there. thoroughly shocked because frankly, we really don't know the scale and scope of what has happened there since 2019.
And it's very difficult to quantify it, to talk about it, because the moment you talk about it, you have to get specifics with examples. And most journalists do not want to get specific because that makes them doubly more vulnerable. So there is this big difficulty of reporting on what's happening there because people don't really want to come on [00:03:00] record.
But I think what I was really surprised at was that reporting on the conflict has always been contentious and you are easily labeled a separatist, you know, even if you simply put out the version of a victim in say a crossfire. But what I was hearing from a lot of journalists was that now You can get calls for very basic stories, for quoting from a press conference.
A press conference has happened, we've quoted something. But we could get a call on why did you quote this? Why did you put it that way? Why have you used this language? Why have you gone with that headline? So, the kind of intense scrutiny under which journalists were operating is what really surprised me.
And I was really joking with my friends there and colleagues back here also, that look, we are living in Sweden. I think that's We should be really happy. We are in a phenomenal state of press freedom here. Because really, journalists, they have to really think a lot. And hats off to them, but so many of them are still doing stories.
So much stuff is still coming out in mainstream newspapers at least. Yeah. About Kashmir, despite this intense scrutiny.
Tanishka: Yeah. Yeah. And like [00:04:00] you mentioned, many of them did not want to come on record. And in your video, we've seen a bunch of journalists speak, but how many did you speak to off record?
Because I'm sure a lot of that was not. I spoke
Manisha: to many journalists just to capture the sense of, you know, the word that I use in the report in the beginning is a sense of suffocation. And I got that sense really after these five days of intense speaking to people. And I think one of the important things to note in the story is The media scene, we know, okay, there's censorship, but what happens when you self censor to such an extent, what impact does it have on society, and I think Kashmir is a textbook example of that.
That is something that you don't see in the rest of India. You know, Uttar Pradesh also, you've done that story of the journalist who was arrested, who finally died, unfortunately, and you spoke to journalists there about how difficult it is for them also to report. They can get an FIR lodged. on something as simple as reporting on corruption and midday meal scheme.
So you have that, but you have journalists pushing back, right? You have independent media [00:05:00] pushing back as a result of which, when you go out, you talk to people in UP, people will still talk about what they're feeling. In Kashmir, what has happened is that there is this sense of hopelessness around speaking itself.
And that I think was something that really caught my eye that. You know, just normally taking a stroll in the market. If you talk to someone, there are two to three kind of stock responses you'll get. One is that, why? What will happen if we speak? Who's listening to us? Second is that such big journalists have been arrested.
They've been raided. They're under terror laws. If they have no protection, what protection do we have? And that's very important to note because journalists are protected by You know, they're supposed to be at least protected by laws and when those protections fade away, there's a sense of insecurity among the general public that if this could happen to a journalist, what will happen to me?
And the third is this, like, whatever, you know, we're going through. It doesn't matter to anyone and that creates a deep sense of alienation in people. So I think from the lens of also understanding what censorship in newsrooms [00:06:00] or in the news can do to a general public, how it can really bring your morale down as a society is very important to study and I think it's very important for people to take note of.
The breathtaking beauty of Kashmir conceals a harsher truth.
The joke Ingar is that there is freedom of expression in Kashmir, but there is no freedom after expression
Shivnarayan: Kashmir. He is not, he also speak out his mind. He, the fear factor is at work.
Report: Is there silence or survival? Because. People are silent because they want to survive. Reporting on the ground has been criminalized in a way.
After the abrogation of Article 370, things have changed. Everything has changed. Everybody is trying to build [00:07:00] here in Kashmir the narrative of the government of India. I cannot speak against the Badshah. Can anybody say?
Tanishka: There's one person in your story who had said that the papers talk about, okay, it's railing here, this road is not functioning, but what beyond that, right? Because of
Manisha: course, there's so many people would say that, ki yeh bas inauguration ki baat karte hain, laser show ho gaya, yeh ho gaya, woh ho gaya. To yeh hai, that sense, uh, and then, you know, what they then say is that, look, if they are not talking, can we really talk?
Should we even venture into this?
Tanishka: But are they well versed with what's happening to the media? Like you said that they think that, okay, if a journalist is arrested, what about us? So does that news get, uh, get, uh, In Srinagar, yes.
Manisha: In Srinagar, there is a lot of conversation about journalists and activists.
In outside Srinagar, in rural parts of India, there are more personal stories of young people being picked up under PSA. So they will talk more about, ki [00:08:00] kisi Facebook me usko thaliya. So that kind of conversation.
Tanishka: Right. So the PSA Act in Kashmir, it also says that, uh, two up to two years, they can, uh, keep judicial recourse.
That's the harder part. Right.
Manisha: In fact, uh, off the record, there is a sense that UAP is better than PSA. Like to have people arrested under UAP, you can at least go appeal. You can have those, you know, monthly, like we're seeing in the case of Omar Khalid. Yeah. At least there is some kind of judicial recourse.
in UAPA. So it's a success if more people are arrested under UAPA than PSA.
Tanishka: Yeah. And what is mainstream media like in Kashmir? I mean, do the reporters there have a softer Godi bias in a way because they also are from Kashmir and maybe they are more sympathetic to the cause or is it as bad as what we see in Delhi, what we see in Mumbai?
I think the
Manisha: comparison [00:09:00] Doesn't exist. Actually. We can't really compare them to the go, the GVS of Delhi because here it's an ideological alignment with the government. And we know a lot of the times it's not even the government asking them to do things. When they're saying Modi, you know, it's not some note that's gone out to them.
It's a lot of it is ideological alignment. I think in Kashmir, uh uh, what has happened to a lot of journalists is. It's just an intense sense of fear, I think, because you've had so many raids, you've had so many arrests. So I think there's a deep sense of insecurity. And the second thing I think also is that the media landscape in Kashmir has always been questioned.
It's always been in shades of gray. So 2008, some of the newspapers today who only talk about Amit Shah, Modi and LG on their front page. Back in 2008, they were accused of being separatist mouthpieces. In 2016, during the whole Burhan issue, they were accused of stalking violence. And there's always the question of [00:10:00] funding, like where is their funding coming from?
Which agencies behind them? So I think they're also vulnerable because there is this added label of having sided with separatists as one time and even Money may be finding its way into your organization. So you're dealing with a very serious charge and if you have such a scrutiny on you, you have to comply because you don't know what it could lead to if you don't comply.
Tanishka: And what about the independent voices in Kashmir? Have they reduced? If yes, where have the others gone? Have they switched professions or are they now reporting as part of what mainstream media is also reporting?
Manisha: So I think, uh, the good You still have a lot of good journalism coming out of Kashmir, and that is, uh, mostly newspapers that are based in Delhi.
So say the Hindu, the Indian Express, the Economic Times, you know, a reporter there, uh, Quint, mainstream digital news organizations that operate out of Delhi. So they have been able to still put out [00:11:00] quite a few stories. And that's where you'll see people talk about, say, the drug issue. Express had a two part series, I think, on the heroin addiction there.
Had a documentary on that and incidentally that journalist is arrested under UAPA, he's still in jail in Delhi, Irfan Mehraj. So I think those are the pockets where you're seeing, uh, you know, good journalism, credible journalism. When there is a
Tanishka: backing of an organization.
Manisha: When there's a backing of a Delhi based organization because you cannot put an Indian Express journalist in a jail and, you know, not expect any kind of, or you can't, I think, uh, there was, it was the wire that put out a list of, Assaults quote unquote on journalists since 2019 and one of the things was the Indian Express journalist and the Economic Times journalist was called to a counter insurgency cell and interrogated.
These cells are notorious. I mean, they have a history of being places where you don't want to go to. So apparently there was someone there. That's what the report at least said. But when something like that happens, there's a lot of furor in Delhi. So there's [00:12:00] protection. I do feel, though, that we could have done more as journalists in Delhi to highlight what was happening post 2019.
Maybe a delegation of journalists from here should have gone there. Because I think it's really extraordinary what's happened there. The taking over of Press Club, it's, it's just dystopian to See that the press club is a police station. But the person who
Tanishka: apparently helped the police in that. He spoke to us now.
I mean, has he sort of switched his Salim Pandit.
Manisha: No, he's a journalist with the Times of India. And he says that he was wrongly targeted. Okay.
Report: There was an allegation against you on press club. Yes. That you organized a coup along with your Um, bodyguards and, uh, you know, you were instrumental in banning, uh, you know, Me?
Yeah. I went straight to them. It was not Look, all the journalists have security here, by the way. Every journalist has security here. It's not only me, I'm being covered by the security. Not everyone. Everyone. Many [00:13:00] journalists I met don't have security. No, no. Tell me who has it? Many of them. I've met reporters, uh, who work in mainstream organizations.
Do you think it's a problem for Kashmiri journalists when they get called BJP agents or stooges of the BJP? It's really a stigma here. Being a BJP man or a BJP agent means it's a stigma. Otherwise also, there is presidential rule this time here in J& K. Uh, Usme toh curtailments hogi. Curtailment toh hai because of the rule.
It's a central rule here. You So, again, I will just refer. You have a lot of anger against the previous governments. All. They are all, uh, uh, traitors.
Manisha: And what about the BJP? And see, that's the most complex part about Kashmir is that every journalist also feels the sense of [00:14:00] victimhood because of these labels that have been thrown at them for now 20 years, 30 years.
So the moment you show something which is showing the government of India in good light, you're immediately an IB agent or an army agent or a government agent, which is very dangerous in Kashmir. Yeah. It, it can mean militant, you know, attacks on you. Yeah. It's not just a label. It's not just a label. So, so he said that, you know, I had done a report.
on how tourists were, you know, stone pelted during the Amarnath Yatra, I think, when, I think this was a case when Amarnath Yatris were attacked. Okay. And I think he had put out that, you know, they were, and, and he had an FIR against him. The Mehbooba government had filed an FIR that, you know, tourists, how can you say that tourists were stone pelt?
That's never happened in Kashmir. So he has that grouse that, you know, I'm just called an agent just simply because I'm putting out the other view. So I think, but, but he completely denied that he helped the police and all that. He said he has bodyguards and people just mistook those bodyguards for like a police overtake.
But the fact is that this. He
Tanishka: [00:15:00] also interestingly said that every journalist has a bodyguard, which is not true. Yeah, you asked him a few times, but I don't think he responded properly to that. I think the NDTV
Manisha: journalist has, he has, a couple of other journalists also have, but I think they will probably be senior.
Like Sujath Bukhari had, he was gunned down nevertheless, but he had. But no, like a regular reporter does not have. At least I didn't meet any reporters with bodyguards around them. Right.
Tanishka: And the Kashmir press, a Kashmir press body responded to our story calling it propaganda. Did you see that coming? And where do you think that's, that's coming from?
I mean, there have been stories on media in Kashmir over the last few years. I'm not sure if they've responded so aggressively always. Yeah,
Manisha: it's very lengthy. Yeah. And I love that they've said that she's offered free consultancy when no one asked her. Listen, yaar, hai to offer free consultancy.
Tanishka: Yeah, it's again, I think, really rather long.
It can be a story by itself. But that's, you know,
Manisha: standard. Like, whenever you critique the media, it's not just there. But even in, you know, [00:16:00] back here, when we report on what the channels are doing, we do get this pushback, right? Like, who are you to tell us? So, that's a very standard response. I think it comes from the sense that media is not accountable to anyone.
And the media is supposed to be asking questions of everyone, but must not be asking any questions of itself. I think that's thoroughly incorrect. Yeah. Especially when the report talks to the average person in Kashmir, we have two bites at least, and that, you hear that across Kashmir. People do genuinely feel, ki hamari hai newspaper mein.
Woh lagte
Report: hain
Manisha: aapke mudde uthte hain
Report: akbaaron? Nahi, bilkul bhi nahi. Woh aam baatein kar rahi hoti hain. Aaj Muslim wada acha hai. Aaj itne logon ne waha pe visitor gaye hue the. Aaj yaha pe itne log aa gaye. Unhone chakkar kiya. Woh siyaar ke woh wapas chale gaye. Yeh bala furood chal raha hai. Woh bale baag khul gaye hain.
Itne log maare gaye. Itna accident ho gaya. The school is closed, so they write about it. They forget the main issue. What do you want to say in the newspapers? The environment, the children are going, that we got jobs, [00:17:00] we are educated, our business is doing well, our children are doing well. Unemployment should end.
They write about it. They live in fear. Because of that, the people are also being silenced. They are also scared.
The question should be, is it silence or survival? Because people are silent because they want to survive. , it's like that people don't wanna, uh, get into the trouble and then
just say, people are like you, especially young. We are like, Okay, Amit Shah is here,
Manisha: Modi has come, LG has greeted everyone. But why is nobody talking about our issues? Why are there so many children in PSA? Why isn't anyone talking about
Report: them? Public Safety Act has been termed controversial by a lot of people.
uh, rights groups, [00:18:00] even, uh, within in, within India and also outside. But when they are, uh, you know, booked under public safety act, it gives an entirely different, it brings it, uh, an entirely different, uh, kind of, uh, storm in his life. And, uh, the thing is that there is no, um, you know, redressal system.
There's no platform where you can put your own, uh, put yourself or explain your position. Uh, that can, that kind of space has been limited to a great extent in the last.
Manisha: So you have to be, if as a media person you lose touch with what your audience thinks about you, I think you're as good as dead. And that's something they should think about rather than putting out long statements.
So
Shivnarayan: that way newspaper circulation has also gone down because people don't trust these papers.
Manisha: In fact, Saeed Malik, he's a veteran journalist there, he told me that privately a lot of newsmen Uh, agree to the fact that circulations have gone down and I have a little thing with a newspaper vendor there also who says Only if you want to put a notice, then people buy that for that notice to see [00:19:00] if the notice has come or not.
Shivnarayan: How much
Report: did it used to sell before and how much does it sell now? It used to sell 100 percent before but now nothing happens.
Tanishka: But that could also be post pandemic, how we've seen nationwide, uh, uh, a drop in circulation perhaps.
Manisha: But see Kashmir, um, for them, they had an intense internet shutdown through 2019. So ideally when there's no internet, there's nothing to do, you would have typically seen an uptick in sales because what are the people saying?
What are they talking about? That is a very important, uh, So, and then they've repeatedly suffered shutdowns. So ideally I think their business should have gone up.
Tanishka: What do, uh, Kashmiri journalists and citizens think about, uh, journalists such as us coming from Delhi to speak about the media, speak about their issues.
I mean, is it viewed as, um, how in some places we encounter the tag of, uh, parachute journalism, not just from our colleagues, but also from the people. I don't know where you're coming [00:20:00] from from Delhi and asking us, but. Sometimes it's also a sense of, uh, listen to our stories, you know, at least someone is, uh, wants to know what's happening, wants to take this forward.
So which way of the, uh, spectrum were they on?
Manisha: I think there's a lot of resentment for journalists who come and set up shop outside the lake. And that one tea vendor, I don't know if you guys noticed, there's this one, there's a floating market in Srinagar. So you go on your shikaras and you can drink kava and all that and there's this one tea seller who's featured in every organization Because he's a funny guy.
He's interesting. He talks about, you know, interesting way of selling his kava, but it's a stock image, right? So I think there's resentment Among journalists, you come here and talk about your beautiful locations in Dal lake, floating market and leave. You're not really talking about the sense. So there's that disdain.
Yeah. And there is this suspicion, especially from mainstream, uh, [00:21:00] especially mainstream television news. I think that this whole hype about tourism of investments, why is it not being investigated? Uh, tourism has, I mean, Kashmir has seen periodic, uh, years of peace, relatively, you know, peace, normalcy, and an uptick in tourism.
So to make this out to be something like it's never happened before, I think there's resentment to that. And then the discourse just stops at that. Ki aabe In fact, just journalist ne, Kashmir ki local population itni, because see, wahan pe aap TV hi dekhte ho. In fact, one of the young Kashmir University students I interviewed, she had something so evocative to say.
She was saying ki abrogation hua, within a 24 hours, The internet is shut down. There is a curfew. We are sitting at home. We are worrying about where the rice will come from. The only window to the outside world is television news. So we switch on the TV and we see people, firecrackers are exploding, people are [00:22:00] distributing sweets, people are distributing laddoos.
And that was so hurtful for average Kashmir that we were nowhere in that conversation. The whole country was celebrating joyously. Like what was happening to us was completely out of and that really hurt like you speak to young students They talk of that very often you speak to people They really talk about how we are completely missing you're talking about kashmir every day But you never talk about us and there's a huge resentment With the mainstream media or on this particular issue that we never feature in You know, in your conversations, the only feature when you want to say ki yeh jihadi hai, yeh pathar
Tanishka: baaza hai, ya whatever.
But, uh, besides media, Manisha, what was, what is the sense you are getting from people on ground? What are they voting for right now? Two phases are done. There's one remaining. Is, uh, security a big issue? Article 370, jobs, uh, I think
Manisha: Article 370, there's, there's, uh, In Kashmir, there's hurt and upsetness around it, but there's also an understanding that it's not going to come back.[00:23:00]
Uh, Jammu, uh, of course, is happy that it went away and they really hoped that it would change their lives. They're upset because they feel it hasn't changed their lives in the way that it could have. But I think the immediate concern for, uh, Jammu, for Kashmir, at least, is that, uh, and Jammu also, they want freedom from this bureaucratic hold.
of the region. They want elected representatives. So the surge in voting is also because they really want someone to go, you know, who can represent them who they can approach when they have a problem because right now it's too centralized. So that is one of the main issues, I think, having elected representatives, having someone of your own represent you in parliament.
Statehood is important for both regions. They both want statehood and protections that can come with the state. Unemployment is a perennial problem everywhere all over India, but in Jammu and Kashmir, the literacy levels are very high. And number of people in government jobs are very high because of very few private investments.
So that strain you see a lot in Jammu and Kashmir, this, you know, [00:24:00] anxiety around the fact that we don't have enough job opportunities here. Those are the key issues, I think. And of course, add to that in Kashmir, there's the PSA, UAPA and drug addiction, which a lot of people now talk about.
Tanishka: But are people going to vote on the, on thinking about that?
I think it'll be, it'll be very clear. Complicated
Manisha: too. Yeah. Because people, since they don't talk so much, it's very hard to tell what are they really gonna, but I think, uh, they definitely want to vote. I mean, one could see this vote as a protection from, you know, unaccountability of the bureaucracy. That I think is definitely in everyone's mind.
Now who they feel is best suited to protect them. Is it? That's a question. Yeah.
Tanishka: And uh, you've covered various states during elections. Did kashmir stand out in a way besides the beauty? Of course, uh, was it You know beauty but it is there's just so much
Manisha: In Kashmir and around, the waste management, [00:25:00] I was stunned to see the kind of waste littered all over Kashmir and even when you go out of Kashmir, it's beautiful, it's a valley, there's a stream, there'll be forests and next to it, like a stream of waste.
So I don't know where, like, what is happening to waste management in that region. It is shocking that this is a tourist destination.
Shivnarayan: Yeah.
Manisha: Of such high calibre. It's genuinely beautiful. But there is no effort to make sure that there's no waste. There's just It's one of the filthiest tourist places I've seen.
It's very surprising. I was very surprised. I didn't expect it to be everywhere.
Tanishka: So Manisha, on ground in Jammu, Kashmir and Haryana. In fact, Anmol and Basant are still on ground. They've been bringing you reports, interviews and a lot of interesting stories that are decoding the elections that are ongoing.
Sreenivasan Jain and our colleague Aryan have also just returned from Israel, bringing a lot of interesting stories on ground. And [00:26:00] Vasu is now gearing up to go to US in a few days to, uh, bring his interesting takes on the fascinating Trump versus Harris battle. This is also going to be an NL Sena.
Sting: With your contribution, Sreenivasan and our team will now report from the US on Trump versus Harris and how it impacts us.
And back. Home from several election bound states. Srinivasan's journalism stands for quality, for public interest, and the truth. So help us support this work by clicking on the link below or scanning this QR code.
Or log on to newslondon. com and choose a package that works for you. Think journalism. Do
Tanishka: support us. Do subscribe because all these stories take a lot of time and resources, which is only possible through your support. Head on to newslaundry. com slash sena and choose a contribution amount of your choice.
[00:27:00] Let's get to Shiv now. Shiv has done a very interesting deep dive. It's called Despite NGT order and Adani operated coal mine got environmental clearance in Chhattisgarh. Shiv, can you take us through the timeline of this story and the clearances?
Shivnarayan: Right. Uh, I think this story has a few similarities, uh, with the Kashmir in the sense it's very emblematic of the governance system.
How stakeholders are not involved in the consultation process. Like Manisha said that when three, Article 370 was abrogated, Kashmiris were very sad and, and while mainly in India was celebrating. So same way in this project, coal mine project, which is in Chhattisgarh, uh, based in Raigarh district. So this coal project is owned by, coal mine is owned by.
Owned by, uh, Mahajanko Maharashtra State Power Corporation Limited and, uh, the, uh, the MOFCC, Ministry of [00:28:00] Environment, Forest and Climate Change, it, the MOFCC gave clearance, environment clearance to Mahajanko in 2019 and, uh, Then in 2024, January, there was hearing and everything happened, National Green Tribunal, which is the top environmental court in India, it canceled the environment clearance on the ground that public hearing, which took place in 2019, that public hearing was not in accordance with the law.
So when any company goes. To MOFCC to get environment clearance. So these project proponent or these companies also have to hold public hearings and these public hearings have to be impartial and fair. So you give chance to everyone if people have suggestions or objections. So this public hearing happened and.
The court said it's not in accordance with the law. So what do you have to do? You have to go back. You have to review the, revisit the whole process from the stage of public hearing. Okay. So before you get environment clearance, there's a whole procedure. [00:29:00] So you have to get environment management plan done.
You are given, uh, terms of reference also, you have to comply with some conditions. Then you are given environment clearance. So the public hearing was very shoddy. The, the, the judgment came in January this year. So what, uh, Mahajanko did, uh, they, uh, challenged this order in Supreme Court, uh, within, within one month, I think.
And in two months, they withdrew the application from Supreme Court. Say, uh, nobody knew why they would do this application, but within five days, they again went back to the Expert appraisal committee, which is the expert committee of MOFCC, uh, which is headed by one official from member secretary is one of the officials from MOFCC.
And there are other, uh, uh, government officials from different departments and a couple of retired officials. Earlier, these expert committees, you would see some independent voices, [00:30:00] expert voices, but now I don't see any expert voice who will differ with the larger, uh, uh, larger viewpoint of the government.
Tanishka: But just for technicality sake, what has more power in a situation like this? Is it the NGT or is it the ministry and it's expert body?
Shivnarayan: No, NGT is a tribunal. It can adjudicate on matters related to environment. So if the government gives environment clearance, So people can go to, people can challenge those environment clearances saying that this is not in accordance with the law.
So NGT has the powers to cancel EC, environment clearance. And then if you're not satisfied with the NGT's order or judgment, then the orders can only be challenged in Supreme Court. Right. So of course, uh, NGT has the powers. It's in the Act, NGT Act also, that it can, uh, Uh, adjudicate on matters related to government, even if it's a government order, even if it's a government clearance.
Okay. So, the public hearing I was talking about, uh, [00:31:00] then, then Mahajanko, which is a project proponent, uh, it again approached MOFCC for environment clearance. And, The MOFCC also relied on the same public hearing that was flagged by NGT. So that way it's problematic on so many levels that you are relying on the same public hearing that NGT said it was not in accordance with the law.
Instead of doing another public hearing, holding another public hearing of 14 villages, 14 villages which are going to be affected by this project. So, that way, it In a sense, violates NGT's order.
Tanishka: So NGT and the government, the ministry's expert body both have used this public hearing, uh, to either cancel the clearance or to give it a go ahead.
Can you tell us about this public hearing and what happened there?
Shivnarayan: So, uh, in 2019, uh, so, This is a huge project and this project is in Garepalma sector 2 and [00:32:00] Garepalma is in Raigad district and currently there are some 14 coal blocks in this, in same area, 14 coal blocks and two power plants, coal washeries.
So the whole area is so polluted. So I spoke with the, with, with representatives from five of the 14 villages, and they were saying there's air pollution, there's water pollution, and it's, it's not livable. I mean, it's so in a hospital to live in these areas, uh, and there is no carrying capacity study, comprehensive carry capacity done.
Hearing capacity mean refers to whether an area can, uh, can shoulder the burden of a project in terms of how sustainable it is, right? Because natural resources will also limit to what extent they can support, uh, uh, a project. So, uh, this public hearing happened in 2019 and more than I think 2, 500 people will be displaced because of this project.
So public hearing happened in one [00:33:00] village, uh, where, uh, Well, some 58 people gave their consent that we are with the project. But in 40 village, there'll be thousands of people. And the EIA notification, which, uh, uh, delineates or which mandates the procedure of, uh, of public hearing. It says that you have to hold public hearing in each gram panchayat.
But the public hearing happened only in one village. And people told me that when they got to know about the public hearing, the public is going to happen in one village. They. went to that place, that school where public hearing was supposed to happen, they picketed outside the school, uh, at dawn. So there was a 1000 people outside the school.
And those people who gave their consent to the project, they were already inside the school. So NGT in its order has also been Oh, has pointed out these things that who were those thousand people who were outside the school and not allowed to participate in public hearing. [00:34:00] So, uh, Mahajan could not clarify why these thousand people were outside the school.
So I spoke with Sarpanch and Pradhans and Panch. They were saying that we were protesting against this project and our voices were not being heard. Uh, we're not heard, we were not given a chance to, to be heard in these, in one public hearing. So these 14 villages, there are nine gram panchayats. So each gram panchayat can have, could have multiple villages.
So ideally public hearing should have happened in nine gram panchayats, which did not happen. And when they went to one village for public hearing, they were not given a chance. So the whole procedure was, uh, was bypassed.
Manisha: And you see this in many cases. Yeah.
Shivnarayan: Right. And especially these villages are, um, is dominant.
Villages are dominated by tribal communities.
Tanishka: Right. I was going to ask who are the communities that are
Shivnarayan: affected. And they rely on, on farming. So they're saying, look at our farms, uh, our, our agriculture land. It's so polluted. [00:35:00] Groundwater is so polluted. And, uh, even there are so many studies, the NGT judgment talks about that you haven't considered reports on air pollution, health impact on, uh, water pollution.
So you should have taken into consideration these reports on pollution levels. But then when the second environment clearance was given, so there were some new reports contradicting the old reports.
Tanishka: And what are the kind of, uh, compensation that is offered and, uh, what is the main reason that the communities are not, uh, ready, that they don't think this compensation is going to be a good idea?
Shivnarayan: One of the, uh, one of the representatives, uh, that I spoke to, he was saying that, uh, Firms which are into coal mining, they started coming to Chhattisgarh in the 90s. So they would have lease paid of 30 years, three decades, three, 30 years or so. So you think I have seen how communities have not benefited from these coal projects?
Because when [00:36:00] these companies go to, uh, Come to us or, or, or start when they start coal mining before, before coal mining starts, they promised a lot of things to us. But I've seen what has happened in nearby areas. These communities have given their land, their agricultural land, their houses in lieu of nothing.
Companies would promise jobs. Companies would say that these are the benefits that you that that will accrue to you. But nothing has happened. So that's why people
Manisha: just get some contracts. Many of them don't get contracts. So
Shivnarayan: contracts would be given to those who are Muslim men who can influence society, who can influence villages, who are close to the companies.
So only those people may benefit to some extent, but not society at large. So that is one of the causes of villages and they're saying pollution is one of the issues why we are opposing it. And I mean, this coal project hasn't reached at the stage of compensation because the land has not been acquired.
Second clearance has been given just now in August. [00:37:00]
Tanishka: But they would also be relocated then.
Shivnarayan: They will be relocated. So compensation, so since we haven't reached, the project hasn't reached the stage of compensation. And they are also saying that we might get five lakh. per acre. But if I, I can't get one acre in other years in same amount of money.
So, so other places, if I have to buy agricultural land, it will be 30 lakh per acre. So the compensation is also, also less. And there are so many middlemen who might take a share in that compensation amount.
Tanishka: And how common is it for NGT to cancel clearances?
Shivnarayan: Uh, off late has become very rare. NGT has to be convinced thoroughly that the process or the procedure, uh, before giving clearance was, was not, was illegal.
So it's also interesting to see who the petitioners were in NGT case. So all these four petitioners were, uh, were from Gare Palma, um, area, [00:38:00] uh, from the affected villages. And, uh, they, they filed a, I mean, for, for tribal communities to go to NGT to file cases, prepare petitions, it's a huge task. And for them to go there in NGT central zone.
So this case was a heard in central zone, which is now Bhopal. Uh, so to go there to appear for hearings.
Tanishka: How long did it go on?
Shivnarayan: They filed in 2022 and it went on about for one year. And August 2023 was the last time when hearing took place. And from August till January, when the order came, NGT took good five, six months to come up with this order.
So, uh, it's, it's, I mean, I don't know, uh, why it took so long, but however, but it canceled the EC. So the case was represented by only villagers. And they were, one of them was applicant person who argued on behalf of these, those petitioners. There was no lawyer.
Tanishka: Okay. It was an in person.
Shivnarayan: Yeah. In person.
Tanishka: Right. [00:39:00]
Shivnarayan: So that way, and, and. You can also look at the, uh, Maha Genco is the, is the com is the, the public sector, uh, firm from our, so what is ad's,
Tanishka: uh, role in this
Shivnarayan: Adani? Uh, Maha Genco has tied up with Adani, uh, subsidiary one, Adani subsidiary special purpose vehicle. Adani is, uh, mine developer and operator.
So Adani is going to, uh, mine that area, develop that area for mining. So that's the Adani role in. The whole coal mine project.
Tanishka: There are a lot of other interesting details in this story. Do read it on News Laundry. It is titled despite NGT order and Adani operated coal mine got environmental clearance in Chhattisgarh.
Now we'll come to the last segment of our podcast, which is recommendations. So Shiv, let's start with you since you're an RWA veteran.
Shivnarayan: I haven't finished, but I'm still reading a, a book by Panka Shaik, uh, Panka Shaik is a [00:40:00] professor in IT Bombay. The book is, uh, titled The Great NICU Bar Betrayal. Uh, I've
Manisha: heard about this.
Shivnarayan: Yeah. So I'm still in the middle of it. So it's a collection of, uh, uh, several essays. So, I mean, this, the, the book is about the great Nuba, uh, holistic quote unquote project, uh, which entails, uh, a poor project. Uh, then the township, then a civilian defense airport and few other things and, and, and a power plant.
So it talks about how this project is going to affect the communities there. I mean, how this project was cleared by so many bodies, so many government bodies. So it also looks into the ecological aspect of this project, how ecologically devastating this project is. It's a short book. It gives you a snapshot of the history of Great Nicobar, its ecological history and indigenous history, history about indigenous people in Great Nicobar.
So yeah, this is the book I'm [00:41:00] reading. I'll, I hope I finish it soon.
Tanishka: Sure. Manisha, what about you? We'll get to your recommendation before Hafta does.
Manisha: I read a really fun piece in the New Yorker. Which is the case against travel and the piece is basically about why travelling is the shittiest thing to do and why it turns us into the worst versions of ourselves.
As someone who really loves to travel, I thought this piece did a very convincing job of making a case against travel. I thought it was very cleverly written. About also this epidemic of travelling and making it a personality trait. Like travelling is no longer about you know, just something you do with your money when you have the free time.
It's also become a personality, you know, it's a personality asset. So I think it's a very cleverly written piece. Since this is reporters without orders, I will suggest two pieces which aren't newsy, but they are really fine pieces of reportage and they talk about journalism, they talk about reporting, they talk about reporters life.
The first one [00:42:00] is one of my absolute favorite pieces called the It's in the Vanity Fair. The second one is a New York Times piece, I remember this piece very vividly because this is a journalist who goes to Rohingya refugee camps, and she finds out that a lot of people, even in the depths of their miseries, were lying to her.
And so the story explores why. Some stories, even the most saddest of people or even the most victimized people can lie and why journalists always have to be careful about buying whatever people are telling them. So I think it's a very fabulous piece. It's called the Rohingya suffer real horrors. So why are some of their stories untrue?
And the third piece is also one of my all time favorite journalistic pieces. It's in the airmail. It's called Loving Lies. It's about a very famous case. The movie is also made on it about a reporter who plagiarized and he. Did like very elaborate plagiarism, like in the sense that he would, uh, make up, you know, if he was quoting a source of a website, he would go to the extent of making up that website.
[00:43:00] Oh, wow. It's a fabulous story of plagiarism, getting caught, redemption, and then what he learns.
Tanishka: Okay, very interesting reads. I'd like to recommend The Midwife's Confession, which is a documentary by journalist Amitabh Parishad, along with BBC. It's available on BBC's website and on YouTube channel. It's a little over an hour.
I watched it last week at a screening and cried a lot. It's an amazing, uh, documentary that, uh, It has taken Amitabh more than 30 years to make. It explores the history of female infanticide and how, uh, in a district of Bihar, midwives were, um, made to kill newborn girls. And, uh, initially we have, we see a lot of, uh, these midwives confessed to how they've killed more than 10 to 15 baby girls each.
And then through a social campaign that took place. changed. They started rescuing the girls instead. And it's a fascinating and it has really old footage, I believe. Yes, the
Manisha: footage
Tanishka: from
Manisha: the 90s. Yeah, I've
Tanishka: heard a lot [00:44:00] about it. It's a great, I think, storytelling journalism. There's a lot to explore here.
And really the, um, Amitabh's, um, his lens of not really viewing these women as, uh, criminals, but as victims. Teams of the system is very fascinating and very, uh, I think important to, um, also note. So do watch that and do watch Manisha's story from ground, not just Amelia story. There are several other stories.
She has, uh, several angles. She's explored from Kashmir, from Jamo and uh, she's report as well and continue to support us. This podcast is now at John News.
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