Samoa Joe will defend the Ring of Honor television title against Jay Lethal at Saturday’s Death Before Dishonor pay-per-view.
One of the building blocks and first-ever stars for ROH, Joe is back representing the brand, which is now owned by Tony Khan. Joe has also starred around the globe, including WWE, where he helped make NXT into a beloved brand during its iconic black-and-gold era. Having overcome a litany of injuries, he is healthy at 43 and back wrestling with a point to prove.
Speaking with Sports Illustrated, Joe discussed the upcoming Death Before Dishonor pay-per-view match, his memories of ROH’s early days, his one regret upon leaving NXT and why the match against Jay Lethal is taking place in a perfect location.
Sports Illustrated: Pro wrestling is a pretty remarkable place. Can you believe that Samoa Joe, in the summer of 2022, is the Ring of Honor TV champion?
Samoa Joe: At this point, with all the twists and turns my career has taken, I can’t even say I am surprised. It’s wild to think, but nothing surprises me anymore. If you look through the various stages of my career, there were tons of things plenty of people said would never happen, yet they’ve happened in spades. Let’s put it this way: I’ve definitely stopped being upset with those who doubt. Shattering different perceptions has been really fun.
SI: The last time you wrestled full-time for Ring of Honor was 2007. You joined the promotion in ’02, its first year of operation, and went on to become ROH champ and have a series of iconic matches against CM Punk, as well as Bryan Danielson and even Kenta Kobashi. For those unaware of ROH’s early history, or for people interested in learning, it was an entirely different, far less glamorous enterprise than the current version now owned by Tony Khan. But you were there, laying the groundwork and reshaping the industry. What can you share about working for ROH in its early years?
SJ: A lot of what made ROH special was that it was literally the precursor to the modern industry today. If you look at the top stars in ROH then and compare it with the top stars in the industry now, most of those men and women have an ROH background or pedigree. That locker room was tremendously skilled. Being a part of that ROH locker room was a process, and it was an earned process. You’d make your bones on the indies and get enough recommendations to get through the door. It’s always been a great place for new and emerging talent to really find a platform to be seen.
Back then, we were building. Now it needs to evolve and go in a new direction, and that’s what we are looking to do with Tony.
SI: Your ROH history ties to Saturday’s Death Before Dishonor pay-per-view, where you will defend your title against Jay Lethal. You defeated Lethal, who was presented as your protégé, back in 2005 for the Pure title. Later in his career, amid a different era for ROH, he became the face of the company.
The last time you two wrestled in a singles match was more than a decade ago, in TNA. What excites you most about this match?
Joe: When it comes to Jay, I know him well. He’s always had to fight his way out of the shadows, and that’s been tough for him. I think that’s what people are seeing manifest here. Unfortunately for Jay, I’m not a very understanding individual. Before, I was trying to toughen up the man on a crucible. Now I’m going to break him apart.
I’m not here to teach life lessons. I’m here to break bones and end this as quickly and violently as possible. If you’re into a violent spectacle, I suggest you tune in.
SI: And this match is taking place in Lowell, Mass., the city where you won the NXT championship and, before that, the TNA title.
SJ: Jay Lethal couldn’t have picked a worse place to catch this fate. Lowell, Mass. That’s my place. Samoa Joe don’t lose in Lowell, Mass, and we should put that s--- on a shirt. This is the worst possible place for Jay. I won my NXT title down there. I won my TNA title there, too. Lowell is full of a different type of lunatic, ones that understand and enjoy what I do.
This is where I do my worst work. I know about Lowell, and Lowell knows about me. You know the best thing about Lowell? They like watching somebody get their ass beat. For them, it’s like a reason for celebration. It’s fantastic. I’ve never seen anyone else appreciate it more and I can’t wait to be part of it again.
SI: You have wrestled classics with Punk, Bryan, Finn Bálor, Kurt Angle and AJ Styles, as well as a fairly short-yet-memorable bout against Brock Lesnar. The SummerSlam fatal four-way from five years ago is another one. When crafting a masterpiece, can you recognize it in the moment?
Joe: Sometimes you feel that vibe. You hit that nice symbiosis with the crowd. They’re into it. You’re feeling it in the ring. The competitiveness is amping up. Sometimes, you don’t know until you get to the back and reassess. Then there are nights when it’s just undeniable, and that’s what happened on the nights you just mentioned.
SI: Venturing away from wrestling for a moment, you’ve been cast in Peacock’s Twisted Metal as Sweet Tooth, with Will Arnett voicing the character. The cast is loaded, also featuring Mike Mitchell, Tahj Vaughans, Lou Beatty Jr. and Stephanie Beatriz. It’s such a phenomenal opportunity. How did it come together?
SJ: I’ve always kept a toe dipped in the world of Hollywood. I’ve done a lot of voice acting over the years, and a friend of mine for many, many years—Carter Swan—gave me a call and presented the opportunity. I read for the part, and now I’m playing the psychopathic clown everyone loves.
I’m grateful for the opportunity. It’s an absolute blast of a character to play. I’m very much enjoying the process and I’m excited to see the world’s reaction to the show.
SI: AEW certainly appears to be the right home following your run in WWE, and wrestling is a better place when you’re prominently involved. As someone who has accomplished multiple major milestones, what motivates you? Would you like to be world champion? Wrestle in Japan? Or is it more about adding value to the show every time you step on screen?
SJ: It’s the same goal it’s always been for me. Championships are a hallmark of this industry, and I’ll always appreciate them and never downplay them, but my litmus test for whether I’m satisfied is based around the crowd. If we’re producing content and people are being entertained, then I’ve hit my goal. I want people to be entertained. That’s my focus. So you can hang championships on the wall or line up trophies all over your den, but this is truly measured by the enjoyment of the people who come to see you. As long as that is maintained at a high level, I’ll be happy with what I’m doing.
SI: This time last year, you were on the verge of regaining the NXT championship. After you won the belt, you were never afforded a chance to defend it. Especially considering that is a brand you helped take to a new level, did you have any regrets after your release from WWE?
SJ: My only regret was not being able to be involved in any development of the young athletes at NXT. I saw a lot of potential and would have loved to add to their journey as they become superstars. That was my only real regret. Everything else, it is what it is. That’s the only thing I was bummed about. It’s a crazy business environment over there in WWE. I had other opportunities ready to go, so leaving wasn’t that big of a hit.
SI: Was there anyone specific you would have liked to wrestle when you dropped the title?
SJ: Absolutely. Bron Breakker. I’m a fan of that young gentleman, as well as his family. He’s a great individual, and I love seeing what he can do. Tommaso [Ciampa] is another one. He’s a proven performer, someone who goes in there and gives his heart.
Saying this stuff may feel like we’re closing the door on it, but a lot can change in this industry. So never say never.
SI: Someone who always believed in your work is Paul “Triple H” Levesque. He officially announced his retirement this spring. His final match turned out to be at a house show in Tokyo, teaming with Shinsuke Nakamura against you and Robert Roode.
SJ: It was a fun match and the crowd had a good time. Obviously, he’s had a monster career, and it’s an honor to be part of his last match.
We have a great rapport and relationship, and I wish the best for him and his health. That’s my main concern. I’m happy he had a chance to get some rest, get healthy and stay around for as long as he can.
SI: Whether in ROH, TNA, NXT, WWE or AEW, you cut the type of promos that make people want to see your matches. Do you have a favorite promo from your career?
SJ: It’s funny. A lot of what I say isn’t pre-organized as a soliloquy. It comes off the top. So I don’t really know. I’ll know I have gotten somebody, but how it’s taken is not up to me. It’s hard for me to say because every time I go out there and try to pick a fight, I think I’m being the most vicious bastard in the world. There really is no favorite promo that I’ve done. That creative side with AJ was very funny, to me at least, and Road Dogg, who was there at the time and loved it. But there’s no specific promo or moment that’s my favorite.
I don’t do favorite moments or accolades. That’s not me. I feel like you rest on your laurels when you start celebrating yourself too much. So I don’t have a favorite promo. Every time I go out there, it will be vicious and I’ll go for the throat. And I’m going to have fun with it.
SI: Time for one more promo. Why should people make sure they see your match at Death Before Dishonor?
SJ: That’s the simplest thing in the world. In this world today, we are ripe with stress and strife and conflict and pain and hurt. Every time you try to blame someone, there’s always a little bit more to it. You can’t quite find the culprit to hate. If you’re really looking for that scumbag to hate, if you really want to see someone get their ass whipped beyond belief, and I mean holy whipped–not half-whipped, not somewhat whipped, not just a piece–if you want to see a full-blown ass-whipping, then tune in to ROH Death Before Dishonor and watch myself, Samoa Joe, take on Jay Lethal.
I will pummel him unmercifully. I will hurt him in ways he’s never been hurt before. And in that time, you will celebrate and rejoice because, finally, you can direct all that hate, rage and anger, all that frustration from your daily life, you’ll have that scumbag to put it upon—and that is Jay Lethal. By the night’s end, you’ll know I am the righteous wrath of fury that will reign upon him and whip his ass beyond belief. And it’s all for you, live on pay-per-view.
Justin Barrasso can be reached at JBarrasso@gmail.com. Follow him on Twitter @JustinBarrasso.
