The second episode of the Duchess of Sussex’s Archetypes podcast has been released on Spotify - and it features a chat with pop icon Mariah Carey. Titled The Duality Of Diva With Mariah Carey, Meghan delves into the complexities of the word 'diva' - and the duo discussed their experiences living as mixed race women.
At one stage of the 46-minute podcast, Carey jokily said that Meghan has "diva moments sometimes” - which Meghan later admitted left her 'sweating'. Discussing the stereotype, Meghan said: "That’s really important for people to remember that there might be this persona, this diva thing we can play into. It’s not something I connect to but for you, it’s been a huge part.”
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Carey then replied: "You give us diva moments sometimes Meghan. Don’t even act like.”
Meghan responded with: "What kind of diva moments do I give you?
Carey added while laughing: "Don’t act like you… it’s also the visual.” Meghan then replied: "Oh it’s the look.”
In her voiceover, Meghan later admitted she started to "sweat” when Carey called her a diva, and offered a response to the popstar's remarks.
She added: "Though my fangirling was tempered today, I think she could tell, but that aside, it was all going swimmingly.
"I mean really well, until that moment happened, which I don't know about you but it stopped me in my tracks. When she called me a diva.
"You couldn't see me obviously, but I started to sweat a little bit. I started squirming in my chair in this quiet revolt like 'wait? What?
"No what?, How could you? That's not true. Why would you say that?
"My mind genuinely was just spinning with what nonsense she must have read or clicked on to make her say that. I just kept thinking in that moment, was my girl crush coming to a quick demise. Does she actually not see me?'
"So she must have felt my nervous laughter and she jumped right in to make sure I was crystal clear when she said diva, she was talking about the way that I dress, the posture, the clothing.
"The quote-unquote 'fabulousness', as she sees it. She meant 'diva' as a compliment but I heard it as a dig.
"I heard it as the word 'diva', as I think of it, but in that moment as she explained to me, she meant it as 'chic', as 'aspirational' and how one very charged word can mean something different for each of us.
"It's mind-blowing to me. It actually made me realise that in these episodes, as I've opened the door for conversation surrounding the archetypes, that try to hold us back, that for some reclaiming the words is what will propel us forward."
In another part of the podcast, the pair discussed their experiences living as mixed race women - and the intense focus Meghan experienced when she began dating Prince Harry.
Meghan says: "I mean if there’s any time in my life that it’s been more focused on my race, it’s only once I started dating my husband.
"Then I started to understand what it was like to be treated like a black woman, because up until then I had been treated like a mixed woman and things really shifted.”
Carey adds: "But that’s an interesting thing, a mixed woman, because I always thought it should be OK to say I’m mixed, like it should be OK to say that, but people want you to choose.”
