David Hytner has filed his match report from Old Trafford, which is my cue to go and find some leftovers. Thanks for your company, correspondence and cutting remarks about a club that used to be quite good at the Champions League.
Here’s Erik ten Hag, being asked how the campaign got away from his team. “We didn’t lose it today,” he says. “We had some good performances [in the group], but we made some mistakes and in the end it’s not good enough. Today the performance was very good – we didn’t deserve to lose but we lost the game.”
Only one shot on target – did the players show enough effort? “Absolutely. Very good in the defensive organisation, very good in the pressing, especially the start of the second half. But we were playing against a strong side and they have always individual class.
“The players gave everything. I have to credit them for the way they worked together as a team against this good Bayern side.”
Does he look back with huge regret now? “Not regret, no. We played some good football – Rasmus Hojlund scored five times and we have to take that into the Premier League. We want to be back again in the Champions League.”
Quizzed about Maguire and Shaw, he says he won’t know how bad the injuries are for 24 hours. Bad enough, I suspect, to rule Maguire out of Anfield, and very possibly Shaw too.
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“So Bournemouth,” says Richard Hirst, “are three times as good as Bayern!”
“Wouldn’t the best thing ever,” says Edan Tal, “be for United to somehow pull it together and make fifth place [in the Prem], only for that not to be a Champions League spot because the coefficient got lowered by them being knocked out so early.” Oof.
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“How’s your German coming on?” Laura Woods asks Kane. “Nah,” he says with a laugh. He’s having two lessons a week but seems a little reluctant to show us his verb endings.
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In other news, England have just started batting in Barbados. Do join Jim Wallace if you feel like a bit of entertainment.
Here’s Harry Kane, not a hair out of place as usual. “It was nice,” he says. “I thought we controlled the game… It’s always tough when you’re top of the group, you’ve gone through already.” Not that tough, Harry.
“Gutsy performance from United,” says Rick Harris. “But nobody really expected them to lay a glove on one of the favourites for this season’s Champions League, surely? United are down to the bare bones really and you fear for them on Sunday.” You do indeed: they’re going to Anfield. It’ll be fine as long as Sergio Reguilon plays the game of his life.
United’s season so far: played 24, won 11, drawn 1, lost 12. It’s pretty damning.
United finish bottom of the group with a feeble four points from six games. The frustrating thing is that Bayern have been so dominant that not many points were needed to squeeze through in second. Copenhagen have done it with eight, after winning two, drawing two and losing two. United really blew it when they threw away those leads in the earlier games. All told they managed only one win – and even that hinged on a last-minute penalty save from Onana.
“It’s so unfair,” says Alun Pugh. “Teams finishing bottom of their CL group should surely be offered a place in the Lancashire Sunday League?”
United played better, but they had no real bite. Bayern were comfortable throughout and clinical for one minute. And United didn’t just lose the game: they lost Harry Maguire and Luke Shaw to injury.
“It’s been a really poor campaign,” says Paul Scholes. “[Though] you have to say in some games they looked very good. Tonight was probably the most disciplined performance of all of them.” Yes, but what they gained in discipline, they lost in derring-do. It was more a case of derring-don’t.
FULL TIME! Man United 0-1 Bayern
United are out of Europe! And deservedly so, as they have lost four games in the group for the first time in their history. A few boos ring out.
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90+3 min Hannibal, who’s been busy on the left, wins a free kick, but United can’t do anything with it. Fernandes looks exhausted.
90+2 min Copenhagen have won! They go through in second place. United need two goals in three minutes just to reach the Europa.
90+1 min United win a corner.
90 min There will be five more minutes. Sane goes off, to be replaced by Guerreiro.
89 min The Bayern fans are singing… “Football’s coming home.” The German sense of humour is alive and well.
87 min Fernandes chips a free kick in. Evans gets his head to it, but Bayern are able to clear.
87 min United’s plan is clear: they’re waiting for Fergie time.
87 min Fernandes, dropping deep, aims a long hopeful crossfield ball towards Pellistri. Neuer sees it coming a mile off.
85 min Mainoo, oozing promise, finds Dalot in a position that is promising too. He’s in the inside-left channel, but he doesn’t quite know what to do when he gets there. United need two goals plus one from Galatasaray, who have just had their 13th shot of the night in Copenhagen, and their first on target.
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82 min Free kick to Bayern, well cleared by Jonny Evans. Bayern get a corner and Kane has a free header from the penalty spot, steered just wide.
80 min Mainoo plays an elegant switch and follows it up with two rock-solid tackles. “He’s going to be a proper player,” says Owen Hargreaves.
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78 min In nearly 80 minutes, United have had one shot on target. Erik ten Hag is about to play his final card: Kobbie Mainoo, presumably replacing Amrabat – no, hang on, it’s Varane, so maybe Amrabat will drop into defence. And none of the back four who started for United are still in the same position.
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77 min Kingsley Coman is given a breather after landing that killer blow. On comes Mathys Tel, hailed as a “great finisher” by Owen Hargreaves.
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75 min A melancholy record for United: they are the first English club ever to concede 15 goals in a Champions League group. They have scored 12, but it hasn’t been enough.
74 min United subs approaching: Pellistri and Hannibal. For both the wingers, Antony and Garnacho.
72 min Chance for United! Onana takes route one to Dalot, overlapping down the left. He’s in the box, but Neuer is so quick to smother him.
69 min United were a bit sloppy in midfield, and Bayern pounced. Three or four classy passes, the last of them from Harry Kane, and Coman was clean through, able to take his time and slot the ball into the left-hand corner. Onana had no chance.
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GOAL!!! United 0-1 Bayern (Coman 70)
Kingsley Coman scores … and very possibly boots United out of Europe.
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67 min On comes Thomas Muller, replacing Musiala. At 34, he is 13 years older than any forward or midfielder on United’s bench.
“How is Copenhagen scoring BAD for United?” asks David Goldiner. “Aren’t they now going to EUROPA as things stand?” Sadly not, as the only team they could catch with a point was Copenhagen – until they scored. This is because of head-to-head results.
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62 min Onana takes route one to Hojlund, who thinks he’s through. Rasmus, have you met Manuel? He’s an ancient sweeper keeper who can just take the ball off you with his chest.
62 min Bayern are now bossing the possession, but they haven’t had a shot this half – until now. Kane sets up Kimmich, who takes aim for Row Z.
60 min Cometh the hour, cometh a yellow card for Amrabat. Fair enough – he tripped Musiala, 40 yards out.
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59 min Hojlund makes his first meaningful contribution – touch and spin, lay it off to Antony. He finds McTominay in a great position which he can’t make use of: when he should shoot, he ends up poking a through ball to Garnacho, who isn’t expecting it. Shame.
58 min Bayern see some more of the ball as United’s fans digest the news from Copenhagen. United now need two goals – one here and one from Galatasary, who do usually have a comeback in them.
A goal for Copenhagen!
56 min Copenhagen take the lead at home to Galatasaray. That’s bad news for United.
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54 min Fernandes, playing further forward now, presses well in league with Hojlund and gets a shot away that goes just wide of the far post.
“I’m always puzzled,” says David Wall, “by the conflicting demands expected of United. People, often their own supporters, pick out any number of their players to say they’re not good enough and shouldn’t be anywhere near the side. But then they also express outrage when that team, containing all of those players they don’t rate, don’t steam-roller all opposition. It doesn’t seem that both expectations can be true – either all the players are crap so you can’t expect them to win, or you can expect them to win because most of the players are pretty good.” It’s a fair point, but are other sets of fans any more logical?
51 min United may even have had more of the ball this half. Some decent passing from McTominay et al sends Garnacho away and his cross is a good sharp one, left-footed, well defended by Kim.
50 min Amrabat has started this half well, not just tidying up but starting moves. This one peters out when Jonny Evans, venturing forwards, can’t find anyone to pass to, and he has the same problem a moment later.
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49 min Chance for Fernandes! Antony sets Wan-Bissaka down the right and he plays a nice cut-back. The shot from the D is just too high.
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47 min United get a glimmer as Fernandes sends Antony into the area, only for Kim to make a fine sliding tackle. He and Upamecano have been very strong.
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46 min United kick off, Bayern grab the ball very swiftly and Dalot, in his new station on the left, is relieved to see it go out for a throw.
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Tuchel makes a change too. Konrad Laimer comes on for Mazraoui at right-back. So Alphonso Davies is the only full-back still in the same place as at the start.
Luke Shaw is thought to be coming off, with Aaron Wan-Bissaka out there warming up and Diogo Dalot expected to move to the left. United, already beset with injuries, have picked up two more tonight.
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“Just before Jonny Evans came on,” says Justin Kavanagh, “the two Spanish-language commentators on Univision (here in the USA) spent about 10 minutes rhapsodizing through the names of the great Alex Ferguson teams. They say there’s no future in nostalgia, but United should give recent signings such as Evans and Ronaldo special Back to the Future edition DeLoreans to park where Denis Law once parked that Jag. BTW thanks for a terrific story, Eric Anderson.”
United’s Champions League marksman has been kept very quiet.
Rasmus Hojlund had just 9 touches in the first half vs. Bayern, fewer than any other player on the pitch.
— Statman Dave (@StatmanDave) December 12, 2023
Need to get him involved!!! 🫣🫣🫣 pic.twitter.com/p4MssFGx6i
“Hook Antony and McTominay,” says Pramith Pillai, “and put in Mainoo and Pellistri. This is bad but not as bad as it could have been.” I’m sticking to my line that it’s been OK. Staying in the game against a far stronger opponent.
“What the hell is wrong with Bruno Fernandes?” asks Peter Tomlin. “He’s a decent player but spends so much time screaming & rolling around on the pitch then immediately jumping up & whining when he doesn’t get a free kick! He really needs to cut this out because it’s making him look like a spoilt brat.” Harsh but fair. He’s so bad with refs – that alone is a reason for him not to be captain next season.
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“A friend wonders,” says Kim Thonger, “if anyone has ever watched a game between Bayern Munich and Manchester United, say for example, a Champions League Final in Barcelona, from a Warsaw hotel room in their underpants, while on a conference call with American colleagues. Not a video call obviously, the friend didn’t have that option in those days and the colleagues were not in the hotel room, for the avoidance of doubt, they were in the USA. No particular reason for asking (for the friend), he just wondered.” Ha.
The other game is 0-0 too at half-time. So United are still down – in fact bottom of the group, a point behind both Copenhagen and Galatasaray – but not out. And they have acquitted themselves decently against the best team in the group, possibly the whole continent. United have been compact rather than chaotic. But they’ve lost Harry Maguire and you’d have to say that Bayern have looked far more threatening. They’ve had 55pc of the ball and two of the three shots on target. United are winning only on corners (3-1), but at least they’re hanging in there.
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HALF-TIME Man United 0-0 Bayern Munich
News flash: Man United are not out of the Champions League yet.
45+2 min United have a good little spell with Dalot wiggling all the way from one flank to the other. But – you’ve guessed it – nothing comes of it.
45+1 min Kane has a shot from the edge of the area, blocked by Fernandes. He has provided at least some of the discipline that Paul Scholes was demanding.
45 min There will be three extra minutes. Shaw hurls himself into a tackle, so maybe it was a false alarm.
44 min Ah no … Luke Shaw is looking indisposed too. Hamstring, Darren Fletcher reckons.
42 min So Evans is on, joining Varane in a decidedly elderly pairing. A United attack founders as Antony and Dalot fail to cross between them. but then Garnacho, fed by McTominay, goes on his first good run of the game. It comes to nothing but cheers the crowd, who love a teenage winger.
Maguire goes off
39 min Maguire comes back on, at right-back, but it’s clearly hopeless. He gets a warm hand from the crowd, and that’s a real shame. He’s been United’s best player for the past month, and they’ve got to go to Anfield on Sunday.
Maguire injured?
35 min Garnacho, who has been United’s weakest link, nutmegs Mazraoui, who promptly recovers and starts another Bayern attack. Someone gets a shot in, easily held by Onana. But then Maguire, tidying up near the halfway line, seems to pick up a groin strain. As he gets some attention from the physio, Jonny Evans trots out to warm up.
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34 min United want a free kick in the D as Upamecano and Fernandes go up for a high ball lofted forward by Maguire. There was an elbow, but the young Norwegian ref sees no harm in it.
32 min Chance for Sane! Flying into the six-yard box for a volley, but just getting ahead of the ball. United had wasted their corner and allowed Kane to start a counter.
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30 min Fernandes takes it and wins a corner with a deflection off the wall.
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28 min United piece together a decent move, starting with some neat footwork from Dalot, and ending with a free kick won by McTominay.
“Talking of red-tinted spectacles,” says Richard Hirst, “I wonder whether there are any United fans who are still unAbel to understand why Kane isn’t playing for them.” Ha.
28 min The other game is 0-0 too, so as things stand, United need one goal to go through. Though that presupposes that they would be able to defend it.
26 min Chance for Bayern! Leroy Sane, supplied by Masala, slaloms through the middle and surely has to score – but the mighty Maguire times his lunge just right.
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24 min A shot from Shaw! United broke down the right and Fernandes played Shaw in with a square ball. His effort is on target, drawing a save from Neuer and a corner. The ball ends up going for a goal kick and there’s some argy-bargy involving Garnacho and Mazraoui, who fell heavily into a hoarding. A few other players pile in, but it’s all polite enough.
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20 min United’s turn to have a bit of tame possession. Fernandes drops deep to try and start something,.United have a good half-minute and then Bayern come again as Davies builds from left-back. The eventual cross from the right is headed away, comfortably enough.
19 min United get forward with Antony and McTominay combining well on the right to feed Fernandes, who tries to slip a slide-roll pass through to Hojlund. It doesn’t quite come off.
17 min As we hear that Bayern have had 125 passes to United’s 57, they’re in the box again and there’s a VAR check for a possible foul by Maguire. Check over, with only Tuchel bothered about it.
15 min Centre-back latest: Maguire and Varane have now swapped sides. Up the other end, Hojlund tries to muscle Upamecano off the ball but succeeds only in falling over himself.
14 min Davies, at left-back, plays a gorgeous perpendicular ball that takes out three opponents. Bayern make it into the box, where Rapha Varane gets a strong header in, then another. It’s his 92nd game in the Champions League but his first start for a while.
11 min Bayern keep the ball for a while, something they do far better than United. Kane’s elegant through ball finds Mazraoui on the overlap down the right, but his cross is overcooked.
10 min Shot from Kane! He had time, near the D, but took the ball first time and didn’t middle it for once, so Onana made an easy save.
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9 min As Paul Scholes feared, United are looking very open in defensive midfield. Bayern waltz across their 18-yard line, not for the last time tonight, but nothing comes of it.
7 min Maguire shakes off some close attention from Leroy Sane. He’s on the left of the centre-backs, where Erik ten Hag doesn’t usually fancy him (and Gareth Southgate does). At Anfield on Sunday, when Fernandes is suspended, Maguire may even reclaim the captaincy.
4 min Fernandes’s corner is overhit and they go all the way back to Onana, but then they go all the way upfield again and Antony gets a shot in – over the bar.
4 min United reach the byline! That was all about Diogo Dalot, who made a good sharp run and wins a corner.
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2 min United get far enough forward to do some pressing, but Bayern, switching to route two, have no trouble playing through them. The ball reaches Harry Maguire, who passes it straight out of play.
1 min Bayern kick off, straight back to Neuer. Route one and in no time Harry Kane is crossing from the right, but he was offside.
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The anthem rings out and the players exchange hand-slaps. United are in their classic red with white shorts and white socks, Bayern in all-black. The crowd are making a lot of noise.
“Pepto-Abysmal” is the subject line of the next email. Is that you, Peter Oh? It is.
“With United still queasy from overindulging on humble Cherries pie,” he says, “and Bayern trying hard not to regurgitate the Frankfurters that were stuffed down their throats over the weekend, today’s match is bound to exacerbate heartburn and indigestion.”
Junior choice
United have two young forwards in their starting XI – Rasmus Hojlund, who is 20, and Alejandro Garnacho, who’s still only 19. And the bench is even less experienced.
The midfielders are Kobbie Mainoo (18), Dan Gore (19) and Hannibal Mejbri (20). The forwards are Joe Hugill (20, scored for the first team in pre-season but hasn’t played since) and Facundo Pellistri, who, at 21, is the daddy of them all. Jonny Evans, also on the bench tonight, is more of a grandad.
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It wouldn't happen now
“A passing story of some interest (l hope),” says Eric Anderson. “When I was a schoolboy in the early Sixties in Manchester, the first team used to train every weekday in the ground at Old Trafford. If you were in your uniform, you could go in to watch the first team go through their routines.
“About 5-ish all the lads would go into a very large room under the stadium and all the players, once they had changed, came in to sign autographs etc. Pork pies and cups of tea would be on hand and the talk was, of course. footy.
“What school do you go, lad? Are you in the school team? What position do you play? Scored any goals last week?” And so on. Then it was a mad dash outside to the players’ entrance – more autographs and a chance to ogle the boys driving away.
“I had a fantastic friend, Tommy Davis, and we never missed a session, cutting school every afternoon. One time (1964 I remember), we were waiting outside and a brand new pillar-box red Mk 2 Jaguar was parked up next to the exit. I remember looking at the badge on the bonnet.”
“Some lad shouts out ’THAT’S DENIS LAW’S NEW JAG!’ and just at that moment out steps Law, followed by George Best and Bobby Charlton.
“‘Hey Denis, give us a spin in your new car,’ says Tommy, with a cheeky grin.
“‘Come on then,”’ says Denis, ‘jump in the front, and you lad, get in the back.” That was me.
“Leaving Charlton and Best signing autograph books, Denis Law does a wheel spin, revs up, goes up the hill a hundred yards, another wheel spin and we are back.
“‘Now sod off you two,’ he drawls.
“Best and Charlton jump in, Denis does another spin and shoots off out of the Old Trafford car park into the mist of Manchester. Now that’s a memory worth clinging on to!”
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Scholes worried about the midfield
It looks as if Sofyan Amrabat, who’s had a patchy time at United so far, is the sole defensive midfielder. Scott McTominay has been playing as a second striker lately, and Bruno Fernandes tends to roam far and wide – though he may be asked to sit deeper tonight.
Paul Scholes has been wondering why Kobbie Mainoo hasn’t been brought in to provide more defensive stability. He remembers that when United were first in the Champions League, they used to be very open. “And we realised that in Europe you just have to be more disciplined.”
Teams in full
Manchester United (probable 4-1-4-1) Onana; Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Shaw; Amrabat; Antony, McTominay, Fernandes (capt), Garnacho; Hojlund.
Subs Bayindir, Heaton, Wan-Bissaka, Evans, Reguilon, Mainoo, Hannibal, Pellistri, Hugill.
Bayern Munich (probable 4-2-3-1) Neuer (capt); Mazraoui, Upamecano, Kim Min-Jae, Davies; Kimmich, Goretzka; Coman, Musiala, Sane; Kane.
Subs Peretz, Laimer, Guerreiro, Krätzig, Pavlovic, Muller, Choupo-Moting, Tel.
Teams in brief: Choupo-Moting out, Musiala in
Thomas Tuchel makes only one change from the team that had a nightmare before Christmas in Frankfurt. Eric Choupo-Moting is the fall guy and in comes Jamal Musiala – who ran rings round United when they last met.
Teams in brief: Varane recalled, Rashford unwell
Raphael Varane, who has four Champions League medals, is back in favour at last. He joins Harry Maguire in a bid to keep Harry Kane quiet, allowing Luke Shaw to return to his natural habitat at left-back. Marcus Rashford is still unwell, which means that the young striker Joe Hugill gets a place on the bench and maybe a chance to do to Bayern what Rashford once did to Midtjylland.
Preamble
Evening everyone and welcome to what looks like the big one tonight – at least until Manchester United fall apart. Or Bayern do.
Both of these grand old clubs came a cropper at the weekend, as United were embarrassed by Bournemouth (0-3, at home) and Bayern were even more embarrassed by Eintracht Frankfurt (1-5, away). The only slight difference is that the men in red shirts have red faces about once a fortnight. Oh, and Bayern have already made sure of topping the group, while United are bottom and clutching at a pair of straws.
To sneak through, they have to win tonight and hope that Galatasaray draw at Copenhagen, leaving both those teams on six points while United leap to seven. To reach the play-offs for the Europa League, which is more their level these days, United need either (a) to win tonight with the other game not ending all-square, or (b) to draw for only the second time this season and hope that Copenhagen lose at home, so they can squeeze into third place on away goals and prove that losing 4-3 is not such a bad idea after all. Can the hope still kill you even when it’s very faint? Asking for a friend.
United’s last three performances have been a shocker, a cracker and an even worse shocker. So God only knows what will happen here. They could go down to their heaviest defeat ever in the Champions League (surpassing the 4-0 at Camp Nou in 1994-95). Or they could dig deep and do something memorable. Opta gives them a 36pc chance of a win, to Bayern’s 39, which makes you wonder if algorithms can wear red-tinted glasses. Last time the teams met, back in September, United were narrowly battered.
Kick-off is at 8pm GMT and I’ll be back soon after 7 to see what sort of team Ten Hag has selected. He can keep it simple with his instructions: play like Bournemouth.
