More of the BBC needs to be based outside London to reflect the “conversation of the nation” and secure its future, according to the controller of BBC Radio 5 Live.
As the station celebrates its 30th birthday on Thursday, with a series of shows and tributes, Heidi Dawson says 5 Live is well placed to see off the multiple headwinds buffeting its HQ in London, including a further £200m in annual cuts announced by the BBC’s director general this week.
“I think that the power of live radio will power 5 Live on for the next 30 years, I really do believe that,” said Dawson.
Like the rest of the BBC, the station has experienced cuts, but 5 Live has not gone online only, as had once been rumoured, or been axed, to the relief of its 5.2 million weekly listeners.
Dawson said the plan to ensure 5 Live lasts another 30 years is simple. “Know your listeners, know your audience, respond to [them] and create the content they want. And that’s not always going to be with the same amount of money you previously had.”
Since the station moved to the newly built Media City Salford in 2011, 5 Live has been the only nationally broadcast speech station based outside London and its location is vital in ensuring it reflects the “conversation of the nation”, said Dawson.
Asked whether more of the BBC needs to move out of the capital, she said: “Yes. The most important thing is that the BBC reflects the whole of the UK.”
As “the head of Salford” – and as a working-class Lancastrian whose great-grandfather workedon the canal where Media City is located – Dawson is likely to be central to her boss Tim Davie’s plans to move 60% of the BBC’s TV production outside London by 2026, and 50% of its radio and music by 2027. A hub in Digbeth in Birmingham is also in the works, and News at One will relocate to Salford this year.
Dawson said: “The best way [of reflecting audiences] is moving content, programmes and people around the UK. We have done a really good job here in Salford and we need to do more around the rest of the UK as well.”
The BBC’s Across the UK strategy is doing just that, she argues, with 5 Live the poster child for moving investment out of the capital and building a skilled workforce in local communities.
Media City has helped shape university courses across the north-west to ensure students have the right skills, said Dawson. At least half the production team for BBC Radio 3 is due to come from Salford by next year, and the classical music team working with the Royal Northern College of Music to equip the next generation of classical music radio producers.
Since it launched at 5am on 28 March 1994, with the dulcet tones of Jane Garvey introducing “a new network radio 5 Live news and sports from the BBC, 24 hours a day”, 5 Live has developed a distinct voice, said Dawson – if Radio 4 broadcasts the voice of those leading the nation, 5 Live tells you what the nation thinks about it.
“5 Live’s role is to connect with audiences around the UK, and to be at the heart of the national conversation. That is what 5 Live does differently. The amount we include our audience in the debate and the way we let our audience shape the debate is really unique.”
The volume of chat has increased over the past 30 years. In 2021, after nearly 20 years presenting 5 Live’s breakfast show, Nicky Campbell was replaced by co-host Rachel Burden and Rick Edwards and moved to the mid-morning slot, with an extra hour added to his phone-in. During Covid, the station opened all its overnight programmes to listeners.
Dawson said: “A lot of people want that companionship from radio through the night. And now almost all our programmes put callers on when they’ve got something to say.”
In a year when general elections were due in the UK and the US, as well as an Olympics in Paris and the men’s football Euros in Germany, listening to callers was going to be more important than ever, she said.
“5 Live is an antidote to the echo chamber. If everybody listened to phone-ins on 5 Live, they would really get a reality check about what’s going on.”
Historic moments on Radio 5 Live
1995: Cantona’s kung-fu kick
Eric Cantona fights with a fan after seeing red for Manchester United at Crystal Palace.
“A fan in the front row actually had a word with Cantona and Cantona leapt with both feet into the front row and physically struck the fan who hit back. Cantona threw a punch. The stewards are involved. Now, the police are there as well. Frankly, I’ve never seen anything like it.”
1997: Labour claims landslide election victory
The Labour party wins a landslide victory in the general election, bringing 18 years of Conservative rule to an end.
“Tony Blair steps up to the microphone, and as soon as the crowd dies down a bit, we’ll hear what he has to say.”
“Thank you very much indeed. I have just accepted her majesty the Queen’s kind offer to form a new administration of government in this country […]As I stand here before No 10 Downing Street, I know, all too well, the huge responsibility that is upon me and the great trust that the British people have placed in me.”
2001: The September 11 terrorist attacks in the USA
Simon Mayo describes scenes in New York City after the World Trade Center is attacked.
“Breaking news in here at 5 Live there are reports that a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center, setting it on fire. Two planes have crashed into the World Trade Center in New York. As I’m looking at the pictures, there has been a massive explosion.”
2012: London Olympics and Paralympics
Commentary about Andy Murray, Mo Farah, Ellie Simmonds and Chris Hoy winning gold at London 2012.
“And Farah goes for gold. And Farah wins gold again. Can you believe it, it’s double gold for Mo Farah.”
2016: Reaction to the Brexit referendum result
The public reacts to the news the UK has voted to leave the EU
“Very disappointed. Yeah, terrible results for the country. We have been hoodwinked somewhat.”
“Give it time, it always works out. I’m not interested in going abroad anyway, I like my own country.”
