If you don’t know the name Kath Ebbs by now, well, you’re homophobic (for legal reasons I must preface that was a joke). Arguably one of the original Instagram influencers, Kath is an actor, writer, presenter, and content creator who has captured the hearts of queers and allies around the world with their commitment to spreading queer joy and advocating for community in an honest and relatable way.
As I’m also a non-binary lesbian with a passion for oversharing on the internet (making me credible to lead this interview), Kath and I sat down to chat relationships, queer awakenings, tokenisation during Mardi Gras and why, for the love of god, companies NEED to stop throwing rainbows on everything. PLEASE!
So you are an actor, writer, content creator, DJ, I could go on. But I love to ask my multifaceted icons, what’s a triple threat that not many people know about you?
KATH: Oh my god… well, one of [the skills] — people know, because I am hosting an event — but I would say line dancing. I haven’t hosted the event yet, so I could be a really bad teacher! But I would say line dancing is like a niche skill and obsession of mine. And then second, ooh, I don’t know. You know what’s so bad? I don’t have many skills that I don’t end up monetising. It’s so bad.
Oh, same. Literally the same thing.
KATH: DJing started as an outlet. ‘I’m never going to monetise this, I love music’, then turned into a career. So this is really bad. Even line dancing. I’ve monetised it!
Ooh, I’m the exact same. Everyone’s like, what are your hobbies? And I was like, I’ve made money out of all of them. Now it doesn’t count.
KATH: Doesn’t count. Okay, line dancing and then maybe like… I’m really flexible.
Oh, very cool.
KATH: I can do the splits on both sides and the middle — I’m really flexible. So that can be my second. And my third is I’m actually an okay swimmer for someone that stopped swimming at the age of 12.
This question is going to make me have an existential spiral for the rest of the week.
Oh, I’m so sorry. It’s meant to be fun! I mean, mine’s that I’m really good at watching reality TV. So, does that even count?
KATH: Oh, I should’ve said that! I’m so good at watching reality TV! I was in an acting class the other day and they did the real serious actor thing where they’re like, “So have you seen anything good this week?” And I was like, “Um, was anyone watching Love Island UK? It’s really good.”
And you might be thinking that’s a very un-actor thing to say, but it’s the best people-watching I’ve ever seen. So I don’t know about you guys, but you guys should watch more reality TV.
Exactly!!! And I view it as a documentary of seeing how people outside my queer bubble, like I’m watching MAFS at the moment and I’m like, that’s right. This is what the average Australian man is like.
KATH: Period!!!! That’s why I like MAFS (Married At First Sight) because they’re people I would never fucking interact with in Australia and I’m glued. But now it’s so weird.
You’ll appreciate this. I love reality TV so much that somehow I manifested a girlfriend that is the queen of reality TV and gives me all the fucking tea. I was watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and “I know that person” and I was like “… what?”
Well, going into that, how did you and JoJo [Siwa] meet? And congratulations of course, on your hard launch!
KATH: We met through G Flip. Which is the gayest thing ever.
[Claps] That’s, yep that’s perfect.
KATH: I went to LA with G Flip to be their guru for a week, it’s a long story.
They’re really good friends, and one night we just all went and hung out. Then me and Jo were friends for like, six months after that. And then it was weird… how do I explain this story?
We met through G Flip and we were friends, and then we turned into lovers ‘cos we would go line dancing together all the time! It was a match made in line dancing heaven. We literally fell in love at Stud Country.
Stop that’s so cute. I love that.
KATH: Yeah. Literally. We always say, if we ever get married, we will be doing the line dance “Fake ID” at our wedding, ‘cos it was the first line dance I taught her and we did together.
I’ve never had such an emotional connection. Obviously she’s objectively beautiful, but it was just like such an intense emotional connection. We would be on FaceTime like all night — which is the most lesbian thing ever. We’ve literally been inseparable ever since, like U-HAUL. Once it was on, we’ve just literally been inseparable.
God I love a lesbian love story. I’m so happy for you!
I want to talk about your family because I am obsessed with your dynamic from what I see on social media. What was your relationship with your family like growing up?
KATH: I grew up with a complicated relationship. Not with my family, but our family had a very complicated dynamic. Growing up, there was a lot of mental illness in my household that really affected things at certain times.
But I would say I feel very blessed on the other hand, because I feel very supported by my family, and by my dad, and by my siblings. My siblings to me are genuinely my friends.
I think as someone who struggles a lot with my own mental health issues, a lot of my deep rooted belief systems that I struggle with is a deep level of self-hatred and being a burden. Something that always helps me in that is being like, well, if everyone hates me, at least I have my family. My siblings wanna hang out with me I think, they’re my friends.
It’s just a really, really beautiful thing and I don’t ever take that for granted. I know that is a massive privilege to have that.
Something that both my parents really instilled in us as kids is definitely a form of self-expression and being able to be yourself. They really encouraged creativity and being a self thinker, too. I really attribute that to what I do now for work and the way that I move around the world. And certain things that I like about myself or my personality, I definitely attribute to my parents instilling a sense of freedom and creative freedom growing up.
Even through the hard stuff — I’m not going to lie, my upbringing was very difficult — I’m also oddly grateful sometimes. It’s challenging living with traumas from certain experiences, and I get very frustrated sometimes that I can’t function like a ‘normal person’ because of it. But I’m also very grateful, because I feel like those experiences have made me who I am today in a way that I’m able to be more empathetic and understand the world in different ways, and be vulnerable and overshare in the way that I do.
Having such a large online platform, what was your experience like coming out as non binary with your family? Did you have to?
KATH: I feel really lucky. My dad has a social media account. He only follows his four kids.
Stop it! That’s so cute.
KATH: He doesn’t even post, he just likes to know what we’re doing. I love seeing his little icon when I scroll through my stories, I’m like, ‘Hey Derek‘!
But he stays informed through what I post. If I post something saying that I get upset if people do this or people in society should be careful of that, then at dinner he’d be like: “Do I do that? Sorry if I do that,” I’m like, “It’s fine”. He’s just a chiller.
Maybe six months after I came out as non-binary, I was having coffee with my sister and she goes, “By the way, are you non-binary now?”
And I was like, “Yeah,” And she was like, “Oh, okay. I was just checking because all my friends kept using they/them pronouns for you. And I was so confused, and they’re like yeah, did you not see??”
And then I felt kind of bad because I do still have this level of internalised shame. I never want to be a burden. Like, even when it comes to my pronouns in society, I’m so bad at saying I’m non-binary and saying what my pronouns are. I change my pronouns on Instagram all the fucking time.
I know I’m non-binary and I know how I feel about myself and my gender, but I have a deep self blame, like a shame complex. And it’s so ingrained in me. Yes, it’s from being queer, but it’s also from other things as well. I just never want to feel like a problem or like a burden or like being ‘othered’ freaks me out, even though I already am ‘othered’.
I also feel people’s anxiety, like when I’m on a set or something and everyone’s like, “Don’t fuck up their pronouns”, you can see the fear if they do [fuck up], you can see a piece of them die. And I’m like, “It’s fine!” You know what I mean? And then I feel anxious and I feel like I can’t have normal interactions because everyone’s freaking out. And I’m just like, “Don’t worry about it.”
I know who I am. I know your intentions are not bad. Like, if you need to ‘she, her, he, or they’ me so we can all exist in a normal way, let’s just do it.
So that’s why a lot of the time I put that I have dual pronouns because it’s more my way of being like, ‘Guys, everyone relax. I know how I feel about my gender’.
Yes, it feels really nice to be affirmed, but I don’t need it to know who I am. Also when I go to safe queer spaces, like the Bearded Tit in Sydney, when I walk into that space, I’m going to feel affirmed. When I’m in community, I’ve got that, that safe space which means I can then deal with the outside world. Which is why these spaces are so important.
Thank you for being honest. ‘Cos that’s my brain to a tee. The shame of ‘I don’t want to be difficult’, ‘I don’t want to be a burden’. If it’s going to make it easy for you, fine! But it would be nice if you did it right. And I think there’s an expectation for us to be so strong and be like, no, we have to defend this. But it’s like, I’m baby, I’m tired. I just want to get on with my day.
KATH: I’m baby!!! And I oscillate with my pronouns all the time just because I’m scared. Like the climate of the world right now — I just kind of want to protect myself sometimes.
Yeah. Fuck. It’s scary. I just think other people need to educate themselves. And as long as they’re not dicks about it, like I can tell they’re making an effort. I’m like, it’s fine.
KATH: It’s just intention. I know most people that I’m around, their intention isn’t to misgender me at all. And I’m like, if you see me for who I am, even if you don’t use the correct word right now, it’s all good.
100 per cent. I think it’s really interesting for us as lesbians to ask who your role model was growing up. Because I mean, for me looking back, it was Ellen [DeGeneres]? And I’m like, ‘Oh, she sucks’.
KATH: I still have a soft spot for Ellen!!! I haven’t cancelled Ellen. Do I think she needed to look at her company and what some of her managers were doing and she needed to rectify the situation? Yes!
But she will forever be the reason why I can play…. This may be a bold statement, but I’m going with it: the reason why I can play a non-binary character on an Australian soap opera is because of fucking Ellen DeGeneres. And I will forever love her for what she did for television all around the world, for the LGBTQIA+ community, but mainly the lesbians, because gay men, they’ll always get their rights before us. And I love her for that.
So yes, I think she deserved to be held accountable, we all do, we all need to be held accountable, we all have blind spots, we all have privilege, and she needed to maybe reflect on the situation, but I’m not cancelling her as a lesbian. Absolutely not.
Yeah okay… you’re right. I guess also if you look at it, like if it was a man that did it, he’d be fine.
KATH: Oh my god! Yeah, exactly! But honestly, when I think about a person or someone that really catapulted my sexuality, because I knew I was a lesbian from a very young age, but I thought it was a part of my like mental illness, and I thought it was an intrusive thought. I thought it was just, again, me catastrophising, me being different, being difficult.
I really managed to shut it down, and I think it was more so like — and this might be TMI — but when I was like 16, I was severely anorexic, and that lasted until I was about 20.
I became very isolated in that time, it was obviously a way of numbing myself, and I was just so emotionally inept.
I had nothing, no sexual desire, nothing.
And then slowly started my recovery around 19, and started to get a bit of a personality back, and started dating a man at the time, my beautiful ex-boyfriend, I love him, and he was one of the first people to really sit me down and be like, “You’re a lesbian”.
And I said no because yes, I find women pretty, but I could never go down on a girl!
[Laughs]
KATH: Anyways, I was working at my food vendor business at Glebe Markets, I was doing a market stall, and my friend came up with this girl, Tahlia Farrant, do you know her?
I would love to pretend that not all lesbians know each other, but yes I do know who you’re talking about [laughs].
KATH: She’s a friend of mine now but this is the first time I ever met her. And she came up, and she is just, hot, and she’s gay, and she oozes sexuality. And we’re just chatting, small talking, and I was just captivated by her. I was like, ‘oh my god, who is this person?’
There was something about seeing someone that was confident, and seemed happy just in their body — it did something to my brain. Growing up Catholic, I had this idea that all gay people were unhappy, no one wanted to be gay. So seeing someone that was happy, content, hot, sitting in their body, I was just like, ‘Oh, wait, maybe I’ve gotten this wrong’.
Oh my god, I love that. I feel like every queer person I ask that to, it’s rarely a famous person, but it’s someone they just met and realised, oh okay, like, we can be happy? And it’s why representation is so important.
So, now you’re out and proud. Mardi Gras. I’m interested to get your thoughts around getting booked for more work as a queer person at this time of year, being a box to be ticked, the pink dollar…
KATH: I love it.
[Both laugh]
KATH: I feel offended this year that I’m actually not working that much. I’m like, ‘What the fuck do you mean?’. This is how we save the house deposit! Am I washed up? Have there been other lesbians that have come in? I thought I was your quota. Didn’t you see? I’m dating the creator of gay pop!
[Both hysterically laugh]
KATH: No look, I have mixed thoughts around fucking rainbow capitalism in general. We’re seeing this in America at the moment with everyone rolling back the diversity plans but then we’ll celebrate Pride. Like, fuck that shit.
But in terms of specifically Australia and the specifics of the question — I personally don’t mind. I want to be paid to be gay because I spent so much of my life hating myself and restricting myself from living my biggest life because I was a closeted lesbian and that caused me a lot of angst.
It also made me pretty shit at my job because I wasn’t being authentic, and I can’t do my job well if I’m not authentic. I look back at me pre-coming out — I love them and I am proud of them and we slay but I’m also like, oh my god, I can see it in your eyes. You were wondering what the problem was with work. It was that you weren’t being yourself.
So yeah, pay me for being a fucking lesbian. I just hope that brands and corporations and people just remember that we exist all the time and that doesn’t even mean in the sense of necessarily paying us, although [that is] lovely, but it’s also just being respectful in your workplace, hiring gay people behind the scenes.
I think it’s so easy for us to talk about the pink dollar in terms of influencers, writers, creators, and people that are front-facing presenters. Although that’s important because, like we said before, representation is so important and it really is a lifeline, but for me, I’m going: who’s behind the camera? Who’s working at your company? What are your policies on diversity? All that kind of stuff.
I’m more concerned about companies making sure that they care about our community all year long and not just when it makes them look good. Because gay people are way more fun and funnier and hotter than straight people. They put us in these campaigns because we have the personality.
I want to [do a] PSA while we’re here: clothing brands, please stop putting us in ugly fits. If you know anything about the gays, it’s that we have really fucking great fashion and really good style and we know how to put some cunty little outfits together. So how about you hire us to create a collection that everyone wants to wear? Because one thing I will tell you is: the rainbow shirts aren’t cutting it in 2025.
YESSSSSS.
KATH: They are fucking ugly, okay? Gay Pride, but, I don’t want to wear it.
And no one wants to wear it. Like,who’s buying them? Who the fuck is wearing a ‘Love Is Love’ shirt? I actually genuinely want to know. So, that’s my only PSA. Just quit it. Quit it with the rainbow.
I love that so much. Thank you so much. Give me a shirt that screams queer joy but also makes me look hot! We’re going through enough shit right now!
KATH: Exactly! And I think writing a piece about Mardi Gras in 2025 feels especially potent because of the world at the moment. I like the idea of joy as a form of resistance in the face of bigotry and hatred. I really want to personally emphasise that this Mardi Gras season. At all times, but especially at the moment.
With your platform, do you feel a constant need to be strong for community? How do you look after yourself?
KATH: It’s something I really struggle with. I feel like I’m in a perpetual state of overwhelm. I can definitely feel that at the moment, too, but I think for me it’s just being in community and out in the world with people, in community. That’s what calms my nervous system and inspires me and makes me feel like I can kind of have the strength to keep on keeping on.
5 Quick Questions With Kath
1. Favourite queer spot in Sydney?
The Bearded Tit.
2. Favourite queer spot not in Sydney?
Stud Country.
3. Favourite queer book, movie, TV show, or artist?
I just read Dylan Hardcastle’s A Language Of Limbs, so probably that right now!
4. Your number one tip for surviving Mardi Gras?
Hydrate. It’s so important.
5. Describe your first crush with an emoji.
The little drama face emoji. It wasn’t drama, we met in a drama class.
This story is part of our Mardi Gras digital issue, celebrating the LGBTQ+ culture makers and game changers who make this city thrive.
Read more from this issue:
- House Of Silky’s Father Xander Khoury on Ballroom’s Past, Present & Shining Future
- Felicia Foxx on Queer Blackfella Excellence & Change Through ‘Artivism’
- Alix Higgins on Friends As Muses & Twisting Masculinity In Fashion
- Heaps Gay’s Kat Dopper on Community, Chosen Family & Creating The Ultimate Vibe
The post Kath Ebbs on Non-Binary Joy, the Pink Dollar, and Falling in Love Over Line Dancing appeared first on PEDESTRIAN.TV .
