"We used to have the best market that people would travel miles for but now it's just a s*** hole."
Stood with their shopping trolleys, friends Vera and Kate agree that Wythenshawe civic centre is a far cry from the bustling hub it once was. The loss of the beloved market and a lack of consistent quality shops has left residents forced to travel elsewhere.
What's left is mainly pound shops and charity shops - broken up by dozens of empty units. The main attraction now is the huge Asda, which the friends say hold a monopoly of the area.
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Recognising the desperate need for change here, Manchester City Council have now bought the civic centre - previously owned by private company St.Modwen’s - and they have big plans in sight.
Exciting CGI images show how the now tired and run down town centre could be rejuvenated with a new boulevard-style town hub surrounded by trees and greenery - a nod to Wythenshawe's 'garden city' vision.
Thousands of new homes are also planned as part of the proposals on the council-owned brownfield land next to the town centre - with many of them promised to be affordable.
Proposals for the town centre include a culture hub with artist studios, performance space and cinema, a food hall championing local produce, co-working spaces, a new civic square and decarbonisation.
Many local residents feel positive about the proposed changes, and agree that the town centre is in dire need for modernisation. But for some traders who lost their livelihoods when the market closed down last year, the new plans have been described as a 'kick in the teeth'.
Vera Bedford, 70, and Kate Bridgeman, 71, have welcomed the new plans, agreeing that the town centre desperately needs to be 'brought into the 21st century'.
" We don’t just need food shops, we need clothes shops. We’ve got no indoor market. We used to have the best market going and it was so good people from miles now it’s turned into a s*** hole," says Vera.
"Now we have to get the bus to Bury for most of our shopping. The place needs a massive face lift. We need better shops so we don’t have to travel. Wythenshawe needs its name back.
"All that's here now is empty shops. We used to have furniture shops, food shops, the market was brilliant. We need places to buy fresh food."
Paula Haigh, 61, has lived in Wythenshawe all her life and agrees that the town centre is desperately in need of regeneration and investment, as well as more affordable housing.
"It's dead scruffy," she says. "It's always needed a bit more variety. I'd really like to see more men's clothes shops apart from sports clothes and there's not a lot for women either.
"There needs to be more fresh food places. I loved the outdoor market that was here about 25 years ago. When they moved it indoors it all went downhill. I like this idea of a new food hall.
"We need more council housing as well. My daughter has been on the list for five years with her children. She works as well at the hospital but private rent is so high. It’s really hard."
Lee Houghton, 32, says he'd like to see more independent shops and small businesses in the area. He has only lived in the area for a year but says he's noticed housing prices creep up.
"I think the plans would be good for the area," he says as he shops with his young son. "My partner's mum has lived here for years and she always talks strongly about how it used to be a hub of the community.
"I personally like independent shops. There’s a place for shops like Asda too but I’d also like to see more small businesses. House prices have risen quite a lot here I think because of its proximity to Manchester so there’s definitely a need for more housing."
For 79-year-old Victor Burger, he feels there is 'something missing' from Wythenshawe town centre. "More choice of shops would be good there's nothing wrong with that," he says.
"I moved here when I was 14 and it's a lovely leafy town. I'm getting old now but I do think the town centre just lacks something. Maybe it's the market that many would like to see come back."
Nicola Thompson, 36, feels the town needs more facilities for children like hers and younger people and is calling for a Primark and Aldi to come to the area to provide more choice.
"An entertainment centre like the one at Parrs Wood would be good and something like an indoor play area for kids," she says.
"I usually shop in Asda and Iceland. I think it would be better if this whole area was indoors. We also need more affordable council housing. It took me about four years to get one."
Julie Davies, who is out shopping with her husband Gary and granddaughter Alayah, says she'd love to see more "decent" clothes shop to save her travelling to the Trafford Centre.
"There’s no decent men’s shops either," she says. "A bit of a makeover would be good. I have lived here for 39 years and the old outdoor market was amazing. There was so much choice.
"We do need more housing but they need to make sure there are enough car parking spaces to go with. Now you have to fight for a space - we sometimes have to park our car somewhere else to make sure we don’t get blocked overnight. There’s so many families now and there’s just not enough room."
Although the transformation plans are largely seen as a good thing, the introduction of a 'food hall' has caused some frustration for traders who lost their spot on Wythenshawe Market when it closed for good last year.
Manchester City Council defended the controversial decision, citing losses of around £110,000-a-year to subsidise the market, which lacked the footfall to continue trading.
Jo Bedford, who closed her small fruit and veg stall in 2020, described the council's plans as a 'kick in the teeth' for the traders who lost their businesses when the market closed.
"I do think it's a bit hypocritical what they say about helping small businesses when we went out of business," says Jo, who now works as a bus driver. " It is a kick in the teeth for us old market traders.
"It seems like they are going down the path of Altrincham Market but not really looking at the Wythenshawe population. You are not going to get the same customer business as you do in Hale and Bowden.
"As a resident I can’t have a problem with regeneration and it does need a makeover but what they are planning is not what the area needs. We need a proper shopping centre.
"And it's affordable houses that people need not more restaurants. People in Wythenshawe need affordable housing that’s not £1,000 a month. Most people here don’t earn anywhere near that."
Residents in Wythenshawe will get their say on the regeneration plans and are being invited to give their feedback to Manchester Council by the end of November.
Cllr Gavin White, Manchester City Council’s executive member for housing and development, said: "Consultation is incredibly important at the beginning of a major regeneration programme like this. Feedback and input from local people about how their local town centre works for them is invaluable.
"We have big ambitions to improve the area for this community, but this only works if the result is welcomed by the very people that use it daily.
"Wythenshawe town centre has a huge amount of potential and this investment will help improve the offer for residents and attract people to the centre as well – while also creating new jobs and new homes for the community.
"We have a real opportunity to create a town centre that benefits generations to come, so I would urge as many people to take part and take time to visit the drop-in. We really want to hear from you."
Local people can attend in-person to discuss the proposals with Council officers at the former Peacocks unit between Monday 7 November and Saturday 12 November – 10am to 2pm each day. Laptops will also be made available at the in-person events for local people to submit their feedback.
The consultation is open now and will end on Friday 25 November. Responses can be submitted to the Council’s website – www.manchester.gov.uk/consultations.
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