The managing director of the ABC has told a court he believes “Australia is a racist country” during questions about alleged double standards at the public broadcaster over its presenters airing personal opinions.
While giving evidence at the federal court on Wednesday to the unlawful termination case brought by former radio presenter Antoinette Lattouf, the outgoing managing director of the ABC, David Anderson, said: “We have racism in our country … I don’t know how you can deny racism in this country.”
Lattouf is suing the ABC for unlawful termination. The freelance journalist was hired in December 2023 as a fill-in host for one week on the ABC’s Sydney Mornings radio program. Lattouf was taken off air three days into a five-day contract after she posted on social media about the Israel-Gaza war.
During cross-examination of Anderson, Lattouf’s barrister, Oshie Fagir, raised the case of the ABC’s 7.30 program chief political correspondent, Laura Tingle, telling a writers’ festival “Australia is a racist country”.
Anderson agreed Tingle was not taken off air but said she was sanctioned for statements she made at the same festival about the opposition leader. Anderson told the court he regarded her statement about racism as impartial and based in fact.
“Since colonialism, there has been racism in this country, and again, that’s backed up by the weight of evidence. I believe it’s an impartial statement.
“I have no problem with that statement, because it is based in fact that we have a history of racism.”
The questions emerged during a discussion about alleged double standards where some ABC presenters were allowed to express personal “impartial” views, while others were not.
Fagir put it to Anderson: “Ms Lattouf can’t make a public statement which is not impartial, but Laura Tingle can: that’s the fact of the matter, isn’t it?”
“It was a different matter,” Anderson said, “and that was dealt with at the time.”
The court heard other examples of purportedly partial statements made by high-profile ABC presenters.
It was put to Anderson that former Media Watch host Paul Barry tweeted “Israel is killing journalists again” and was not subject to any sanctions. Anderson told the court he was not aware of the tweet. Anderson was also asked about global affairs editor John Lyons, Q&A host Patricia Karvelas, and the ABC chair Kim Williams.
Anderson said that each situation is evaluated independently and in context.
“I think it depends on the statement itself, the assessment that is made as to whether, yes, it could be reasonably considered not to be impartial … I think it’s about that judgment, and I think you are exercising that judgment against the staff code of conduct.”
Fagir put it to the managing director that Lattouf was held to a different standard to other ABC presenters.
“We can put to bed any idea that the ABC sanctions hosts and reporters who are engaging in conduct which might reasonably be perceived not to be impartial in relation to contentious issues,” Fagir asserted.
“I think it depends,” Anderson replied. “I think it’s more complicated than that.”
Anderson will resume his cross-examination on Thursday morning.
Lattouf receives death threats
Earlier on Wednesday, documents released by the court showed that Lattouf reported receiving death threats after she was taken off air by the ABC in December 2023 for posting on social media about the conflict in Gaza.
After being removed from broadcasting, Lattouf was phoned by an anonymous man who threatened “I will find you and end you and shut your antisemitic mouth once and for all”.
In an affidavit released by the court on Wednesday, Lattouf detailed dozens of death threats and abusive and threatening messages she had received since December 2023.
“On two occasions … I received threatening phone calls from private numbers,” she told the court.
“A male said words to the effect: ‘I will find you and end you and shut your antisemitic mouth once and for all.’ In late May, a woman called screaming at me saying phrases that included ‘Go back to Gaza’ and ‘I wish you and your kids were in that tent in Rafah’ and to ‘watch your back’.”
Lattouf selected in part due to ‘diversity policy’
On Wednesday in the federal court, the third day of her unlawful termination claim, Ian Neil SC, the counsel for the ABC, outlined the chronology of its case.
Neil said Lattouf’s account of December 2023 had “jumbled the chronology of events and omitted salient events”. He said senior ABC managers were concerned to observe the ABC’s requirements for impartiality.
Lattouf presented her first show on Monday 18 December and within 90 minutes after coming off air, the ABC began receiving emails complaining about her, Neil said.
Anderson forwarded some of those complaints to the chief content officer, Chris Oliver-Taylor, and the acting editorial director, Simon Melkman, with the request to investigate the matter and provide advice.
The court was told Anderson wrote in an email: “Can we ensure that Antoinette is not and has not been posting anything that would suggest she is not impartial.
“I am concerned her public views may mean that she is in conflict with our own editorial policies.”
Anderson also asked why Lattouf had been selected as fill-in host.
The then manager of ABC Radio Sydney, Steve Ahern, who hired Lattouf for the casual shifts, wrote to Anderson that Lattouf had been identified as a potential future presenter for ABC radio.
“Her background is Lebanese-Christian. She grew up in western Sydney, the child of Lebanese immigrants,” he wrote.
“She’d been selected in part having regard to the ABC’s diversity policy.”
Lattouf’s affidavit states other ABC staff were incensed by her sudden removal. On the afternoon of Wednesday 20 December, Lattouf and the program team had been planning the next day’s episode when she was called into a meeting for a “quick chat” – but then told she would not be presenting the next day. She was told, she says, “you can return to your desk, get your bag, and leave”.
As Lattouf packed her desk to leave the building, she said one colleague told her: “I am so sorry, you have done nothing wrong. This is bullshit.”
Another said: “We back you. This is wrong. The ABC is lucky to have you.”
Lattouf’s post was a repost of a Human Rights Watch report on Instagram detailing HRW’s finding that the Israeli military was using starvation as a weapon of war in Gaza. Lattouf added the words on her post: “HRW reporting starvation as a tool of war.” The ABC had covered the Human Rights Watch report as a news story online.
At issue in the case before the federal court is whether Lattouf had been instructed not to post on social media by an ABC manager, or whether it had merely been suggested she stick to posting “factual information from reputable sources”, as she has said occurred in her affidavit.
The Fair Work Commission found she was sacked from her casual presenting role on the ABC, paving the way for her to pursue an unlawful termination case.
The ABC argued at the commission that Lattouf was not sacked because she was paid for the full five days of her contract.
Mediation between the parties failed.
