This week, Newslaundry’s Abhinandan Sekhri, Raman Kirpal, Manisha Pande, and Anand Vardhan are joined by in-house reporter Tanishka Sodhi and The News Minute’s Anisha Sheth.
On the alleged sexual abuse tapes involving JDS’s Prajwal Revanna, Anisha says the scale of violence is unheard of in Karnataka, “even though the state has had its share of sexual scandals”. Anand notes that several victims were party workers, and there is a need to examine political parties as workplaces.
The conversation then shifts to the politics in Bihar and Baramati, both set to poll on May 7. Tanishka says the two Pawar factions are in the fray in Baramati but, “sympathy for Sharad Paward cannot be denied”.
Abhinandan then brings up Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s recent speeches. He says Modi’s “Congress will take your buffalo” and “steal your mangalsutra” are the BJP’s “Hail Mary”.
This and a whole lot more. Tune in!
Hafta letters: State of the nation, divisive speeches, what Mamata is up to
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Song: Jhootha Kahin Ka
Timecodes
00:00:31 - Press Freedom Week offer
00: 03:20 - Headlines
00: 10:10 - Prajwal Revanna controversy
00:30:04 - Anisha’s recommendation
00: 43:12 - The contest for Baramati
00:54:20 - Tanishka’s recommendation
00:54:47 - Bihar elections
01:04:30 - Gems of PM Modi
01: 20:30 - Letters
02:00:27 - Recommendations
References
BJP minority leader expelled for criticising Modi’s anti-Muslim speech
Threat to free speech: Bengaluru courts lead the way in issuing gag orders on media
Recommendations
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Dignity, Fraternity, Knowledge: Lessons on Ambedkar's social democracy from Deeksha Bhoomi
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In Baramati, Ajit and Sunetra’s ‘double engine growth’ vs sympathy for saheb and Supriya
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Time Is Running Out for Rahul Gandhi’s Vision for India
Terms of Trade | Roshan Kishore
Radio Modi: How India’s Prime Minister Sweet Talks The Nation
Raman
(To be updated)
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The Inner World by Sudhir Kakkar
Intimate Relations by Sudhir Kakkar
Sudhir Kakar, the alchemist | By David Davidar | The Hindu
Abhinandan
Check out our previous Hafta recommendations.
Produced and recorded by Priyali Dhingra & Aryan Mahtta, edited by Hassan Bilal and Umrav Singh.
483
[00:00:00]
Manisha: This is a News Laundry Podcast, and you're listening to NL Hafta. Angrez apna lagaan aur
Abhinandan: News Laundry chhorte. Welcome to another episode of Hafta. We are recording this in the midst of a very hectic and frenzied week. election campaign. It is 11 38 a. m. on Thursday, the 2nd of May. Tomorrow is the 3rd of May, which is Press Freedom Day. And we have a special scheme, the News Minute and News Laundry present to you the Press Freedom Week scheme, where you can buy one subscription and get one for free.
So that means you can give it to a friend or relative who might need to understand the value of press freedom. Uh, so if you buy one subscription, you You can give the email and the name of one person you want to gift it to, they'll automatically get one. The link is in the show notes below. It's also on the website of the [00:01:00] News Laundry and the News Minute.
So do check it out. And those of you who would like to buy a subscription, this is a good time to buy it because you get one for free. And I would suggest you give it to someone who actually doesn't appreciate the value of press freedom. That would be a better gift than someone who already does, because they probably already subscribed to some news media outlet or the other, which is not ad funded.
And like you have observed, the News Minute has also taken off ads. We have never had ads because when the public pays, the public is served. When advertisers pay, advertisers are served. So happy Press Freedom Day, everybody. All you wonderful journalists and all that. Happy Press Freedom Day.
Manisha: I don't know why we are so happy though.
Abhinandan: I don't know why we are so happy. Always trust Manisha to just pull down the room to cynicism and depression. But we have a full one and a half hours for that and I'm sure Manisha will do her best. But let me introduce the panel to you first. Uh, in the studio, Anand Vardhan, our, uh, Chief Justice in Training.
Manisha Pandey.
Manisha: Hi.
Abhinandan: [00:02:00] Uh, the cynic. Hi.
Manisha: Moving up from lawyer who is fighting for news laundry to now Chief Justice.
Abhinandan: Yeah, by the time we finish, he'll be the head of the International Court of Justice. That's, that's the, that's my plan. Uh, and joining us online is, uh, the wonderful, Well, she's not the Maharashtra correspondent.
She's in Maharashtra right now, Tanishka,
Manisha: but she's from Bombay, but
Abhinandan: she's from Bombay, Mumbai, Mumbai. Hi, Tanishka.
Manisha: Hi, how are you all?
Abhinandan: Very well. We can't wait to hear what's happening in Maharashtra from you and also joining us is Aneesha Seth. Uh, how do you pronounce that? Sheth or Seth? Seth. Hi Anisha, and where are you joining us from?
Where are you right now?
Anisha: I'm in Bangalore.
Abhinandan: I see. And are you also going to be traveling all over the place? I have already traveled all over the
Anisha: place. Uh, no, not yet. I mean, uh, not, uh, right now. Uh, yesterday my colleague and I, uh, were in Hassan. And, uh, we just got back last night.
Abhinandan: All right. So Anisha is Associate Editor at the News Minute.
She's a journalist and an educator. She's [00:03:00] taught at the Asian College of Journalism. Has worked with organizations including the Hindu and New Indian Express. And Reuters. So welcome Anisha, Tanishka. Uh, you will tell us what was happening on the ground, even actually you were on the road for a bit.
Manisha: Karnataka and Kerala and now I'm back again. And now you're going to be heading
Abhinandan: to UP wherever. So, right. So before we continue with the discussion, let's get the headlines of the week.
Manisha: The Karnataka police has booked JDS MP Prajwal Rewanna and his father HG Rewanna for sexual harassment and criminal intimidation.
This comes after about 3000 videos showing purportedly. Uh, visuals of sexual assault against several women surfaced in Hassan. This is right before the constituency went for Lok Sabha election. The allegation is that these videos were recorded by Prajmal. The JDS has suspended Rewana amid these allegations and BJP has distanced themselves from their ally.
Abhinandan: And as we're recording this, a lookup notice has been issued.
Manisha: The Supreme Court on Friday rejected the plea for 100 percent verification of the votes with [00:04:00] VVPAT slips or a return to the system of ballot papers. This court has said. To us, it is apparent that a number of safeguards and protocols with stringent checks have been put in place.
Raman: I saw my slip. I was able to see it. Seven seconds. Okay, great. When I voted.
Manisha: Swedish British medicine manufacturer AstraZeneca has admitted in the UK High Court that its vaccine can cause a rare side effect called thrombosis TTS. So it's basically blood clotting. clotting, thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome.
That's the full form of this syndrome that you can get, but it's extremely rare. That's to be underlined.
Abhinandan: Although I've spoken to several doctors, they said this is true for pretty much every vaccine. Certain amount of people will react badly to it. So I, I think there's being a meal is being made out of this by anti vaxxers.
Not only, I'm sure some people have held this skepticism, but To the doctors I've spoken to, this is not unusual for any vaccine. So it's not illegal. So why is this a
Manisha: lawsuit then? Because [00:05:00] they didn't disclose it.
Abhinandan: I guess.
Manisha: Gems from the PM this week, the Prime Minister has been giving a lot of speeches and yeah, not all of them are very savoury.
In an election rally in Telangana, he said that he would not allow reservations for Scheduled Caste, Scheduled Tribes and other backward classes to be distributed to Muslims as long as he lives.
Abhinandan: Not that anyone said that it is true, but still.
Manisha: And then, uh, during another rally in Gujarat, he said, if you have two buffalos, the Congress will take away one if 42 par.
Abhinandan: And we ask, if you have no buffalo, then what do they take? Then will they take a lot of Bull
-: Congress?
Guarantee
S cst, OBC, [00:06:00] or.
My ladies and gentlemen, I will not let even the auspicious thread of your marriage be saved. Congress is dying here.
Manisha: On Monday, a report by the Washington Post, named Research and Analysis wing Officer Victor Yado, for alleged involvement in a plot to assassinate seek separatist. Gurpant Singh Panu, on American soil last year, India has strongly rejected these claims while the U. S. said that it's working regularly with India in its investigation of the allegations.
I
Raman: think more than this guy, he, the report also speaks about Doval. [00:07:00] Hmm, it does, yeah. For his involvement, so this is something which must have.
Abhinandan: Hmm, it's a long 11 page report.
Manisha: The Supreme Court has questioned the ED about the timing of Aam Aadmi Party Chief Arvind Kejriwal's arrest ahead of the Lok Sabha election.
Life and liberty are exceedingly important, the court said. You can't deny that.
Raman: Supreme Court hasn't questioned. Supreme Court, I think, I mean, what I made out of it, that it was one of the question that was raised by, uh, you know, Kejriwal and his lawyers. So Supreme Court has asked them to respond to this.
Manisha: So it's not really questioning or pulling up of ED, they're saying, what do you have to say? Yes. Congress chief Arvind Singh Lovely resigned from his post on Sunday citing disagreements within the party. The Rajasthan police on Saturday arrested, expelled Bharatiya Janata Party Minority Morcha leader Usman Ghani in an alleged breach of peace case.
You can watch a very detailed interview of his with our colleague Shiv. I think it's very interesting. This is of course after a video of Usman went viral, uh, where he's accusing the Prime Minister of [00:08:00] Wahyat.
Abhinandan: And this apparently does breach of peace. The Prime Minister's speech, which outright is targeting, it is not a breach of peace.
That's
Manisha: and that odious Instagram reel put up by the Bharatiya Janata Party, which has been removed, which literally says that your gold will be snatched by Muslims. The Election Commission banned Bharat Rashtra Samiti Chief and former Telangana Chief Minister K Chandrasekhar Rao from election campaigning for 24, 24, 48 hours.
And this is because of his remarks on April 5th about Congress, which was objectionable and derogatory. Do we know? I have missed what he said. No, no, and he was giving
Raman: lots of interviews during the lull period, so that was also one of the reasons. No,
Abhinandan: I don't know what he said specifically.
Manisha: What's the problem with all these stories?
You never get to know what the objectionable thing is. President Draupadi Murmu on Monday visited the Ram temple in Ayodhya. This came after Rahul Gandhi's claim that she was not invited for the Pran Pratishtha ceremony of Ram Lalla in [00:09:00] Ayodhya because of her tribal origin.
Abhinandan: Completely unrelated. The
Raman: fact remains that she, she didn't go.
Abhinandan: At that time.
Raman: At that time. And she's going now after,
Abhinandan: after Rahul's claim.
Raman: I don't know why.
Abhinandan: And then finally, In Madhya Pradesh. Akshay Kanti Bam, Congress Party's candidate from Indore, withdrew his nomination and joined the Bharatiya Janata Party. How about that? In Madhya Pradesh again, six time Congress MLA Ramnivas Rawat quit the party and joined BJP.
In Karnataka, Pradesh Congress Committee General Secretary Dr. Shushrut Gowda quit the Congress and joined the BJP. In Haryana, JJP's former State Unit Chief Nishant Singh joined the Congress. And in Telangana, former Minister Alola Indrakaran Reddy quit the BRS and joined Congress.
Raman: So, they are Sort of children of the lesser court, but we have, uh, our series on turn courts is basically talking about all those turn courts who are contesting on [00:10:00] MP for, for the mp, uh, you know, election elections.
So, so, so they're the Congress as well as BAP of course BJP as more turn courts. So
Abhinandan: you do read that, but let's get to the discussions now. So, Anisha, you said you were in Hassan. That is where this entire controversy regarding this quite perverted gentleman. What's his name?
Manisha: If you want to be careful, you can say perpetually perverted.
Abhinandan: No, I agree. Because we are not sure. I will commit. If you want to be legally
Manisha: sure. I will
Abhinandan: commit to saying that he is perverted. Yes, I given his judgment. I have given my commitment. He has given his judgment. Judge sahib, can I say perverted or do I have to say perpetually perverted?
Anand: Allegedly.
Abhinandan: Allegedly.
Okay. But I can, it's an opinion. But basically
Manisha: close to 3000 videos emerged in the run up to the Lok Sabha election there. These videos apparently have about 70 women ranging from house helps to party workers to wives of party workers. And these videos, some of them at least show sexual harassment, molestation, even rape.[00:11:00]
And the allegation is that, uh, this. Person has shot it, Prajwal Rewanna, who is GDS
Abhinandan: and he's the grandson of HD Devegoda the candidate
Manisha: for GDS from Hassan,
Abhinandan: right? So, uh, if you know, uh, Anisha, how big an impact will this have outside Hassan? Um, what is the impact in Hassan and, uh, Like the SIT has been formed, but there is no such tradition in, in, uh, Bangalore of demolishing houses of people who've been accused of stuff like in UP and accusations of to have your house demolished.
It could be about anything or Madhya Pradesh. Even Mamu used to be so proud of it. And now he said, Mamu will take care of you, Shivraj Chauhan. Just give us an idea of the impact of this in the large election and Hassan itself.
Anisha: So in Hassan, I mean, um, so my colleague Shivani Pawar and I were there, uh, uh, two days ago and, uh, until yesterday.
So what we found is that there is a lot of, um, [00:12:00] sadness in the sense that people are, uh, they feel bad about what has happened. Uh, that, that is definitely there because the scale of the violence, alleged violence, if you can call it that, is, uh, Something that people have not heard of. I mean, Karnataka has had its share of sex scandals and so on involving ministers and politicians and everybody.
Uh, but, uh, that sentiment of, uh, Oh my God, look at what's happened. Okay, and this is disgusting. And how could he do this? You know that that kind of sentiment is there people do talk about it. And there's two things here. One is that, um, it's not exactly translated into support or Rather a withdrawal of support against jds, but it's more focused on prajna devana himself So the legacy that his grandfather devika has I mean the respect that he has [00:13:00] is still there So they the people are like, oh my god, you know, his name has been tarnished He put us on the map, you know, he made us famous because he became prime minister and now everybody, you know, somebody from our town, uh, represented the country.
So that kind of feeling is definitely there. And there is also another kind of feeling that, you know, uh, these, uh, uh, maligned the name of, uh, also because that entire region is, you know, under the control of the Devya Gowda family and has been so for decades. Um, so that part is also there. Now, the videos themselves started surfacing on a massive scale.
I think, uh, uh, four or five days before elections on April 26. And they've spread a lot and I think people have maybe seen them or they've definitely heard about it. But, uh, nobody will say that, that they've actually seen them, right? Because there's also a sense of shame [00:14:00] associated with watching something like that.
So, uh, outside of Hassan, I mean, the impact is yet to be felt because the JDS itself doesn't have any presence. beyond the old Mysore region, uh, Mysore, Mandya district, Hassan and so on, which is in the southern part of Karnataka. Uh, the next phase of elections, the constituencies that go to polls for being of them, they're all in North Karnataka.
And so one aspect of this is that the JDS is in alliance with the BJP, right? So the BJP has just gone ahead and distanced itself from it saying we didn't know anything about it Even though its own party leader from that district Uh has you know been saying since december these videos exist and he's gone to town, you know locally held press conferences and so on and talked about it and Said, you know that there are videos like this at us, you know doing the rounds in passen district socially however, yeah, there's [00:15:00] definitely going to be an impact because It's Look at what is happening.
These are videos of women where, uh, you know, violence has been committed against them. And, uh, there is also talk of, uh, this being consensual, quote unquote.
Abhinandan: And in some instances, like it's, I mean, I guess the same rule doesn't apply for all the women who are featured, right. And some they were consensual, some they're not consensual, some there's signs of distress.
Anisha: Yeah. That is what people see. That is the impression that people have. You know that, uh, they say that, you know, in some of the videos of women don't look like they're being forced in some of the videos, a couple of women are definitely, uh, it definitely looks like an assault, uh, but even this whole argument about consent has to be seen in the context of who this man is.
If he has indeed done all of this, right? Uh, he holds immense power. Exactly. His family has been in power, yeah, for, for [00:16:00] 50 years in that region. And let me just, let me,
Abhinandan: sorry, I just want to kind of, one thing that I was wondering because at least what I have been told by people who, I'm incredible, you know, people who are covering this, who have been following this since it broke is that some of the ladies featured are, you know, party workers or wives of party workers.
Now what I don't understand when something like that happens, how is He or his father or their clout in the party is still there because, uh, I mean, it's like, I mean, I remember when I, when I was in school, um, if there was one, uh, and not even something so disgustingly hideous, you know, if there was a slight committed to, I remember there were these two specific instances in the tea gardens in Assam, where there was this one, uh, manager, uh, whose child used to study with us, uh, who was killed.
by the tea garden workers because they were completely outraged by the way he spoke to someone. Uh, cause those days there was a lot of unrest in [00:17:00] the tea gardens. There were several cases of what I don't understand is how something like this can happen with party workers and the party workers are, I mean, haven't, you know, surrounded the house.
So I don't get that.
Anisha: See, that's It is caste pride, caste power, right? And, uh, Mandya, I'm sorry, Hassan district is not, uh, vokaligas, they are a landowning community, largely farmers and so on, right? So, uh, they would be considered backward classes and so on, socially, right? Now, but they are still dominant in the region.
And they are present in a significantly large number, even though there are like, uh, sub castes and so on. So Devya Gowda belongs and his family belong to the highest of these sub castes. And they look down on other women, right? So now when somebody rises to this level, now, uh, Devya [00:18:00] Gowda has built a coalition of, I mean, he's, he's built support among all castes.
for himself, right? But the benefits of that power have mostly gone to Mokulikas and everybody recognizes that over there. So Hassan is definitely feudal in that sense because, uh, everybody accepts a caste kind of dominance, a casteist mindset as normal. And that's why they don't even see that this kind of, uh, they don't question it.
They don't think it's wrong. I mean, it's not that, uh, questioning this past dominance is completely absent over there. It definitely isn't. But everybody, so the family derives its power. From both things, right? From the, they derived the political power because of their caste domination. And then their caste domination also amplified their, sorry, their political power also amplified their caste domination, right?
Gives you a certain kind of, uh, uh, Or it [00:19:00] creates a sense of impunity. I think there may also
Manisha: be one element of boys will be boys sort of, uh, sentiment playing out here. Because even, uh, with the BJP leader who has been talking about these videos for a very long time, Dev Rajagoda, who's the advocate of the driver, who first got access to these videos.
In his letters, he's indicating as dirty videos. He, it's not immediately apparent that it's rape or it could be molestation because again, there are 3000 videos. Some of them appear to be consensual. So I think the sense could have been at that point that he's a young guy fooling around and we have access to his.
You know, dirty videos. So maybe the scale of what was happening was not really apparent. Also, because a lot of these women do come, I mean, there are house helps, there are people who are at a much, uh, you know, the power equation is very skewed. So they may not have spoken about it. And also I think it probably got a pass that, okay, he's a young boy having fun.
So I don't think it was very apparent till it actually came out. Uh, and you [00:20:00] saw what was happening.
Abhinandan: So, so I mean,
Manisha: So I'm guessing
Abhinandan: that due diligence process and distributing tickets isn't as robust as one would imagine it would be, uh, generally in, in, uh, Lok Sabha elections, clearly. Yeah, because that
Manisha: letter by the BJP leader very clearly says that, you know, they're going to have If there is, you know, robust due diligence,
Abhinandan: I mean, there's, you know, more due diligence happens in a small company when you're trying to You know, figuring out what to do.
But one last question, then I just open up to the panel to Anisha. This is Hassan. You know, as I look at the map, it's, you know, Southern Karnataka, right? Uh, so right now, uh, Northern Karnataka is yet to vote. Is that correct? That's that's the part. Uh, so, uh, I saw, um, Mr. Amit Shah's not a speech, but he was giving an answer.
You can't even call them answers because the interviews quote unquote that Amit Shah and Mr. Modi do not interviews a mic is in front of them and say whatever you want. And we will grin and behave like buffoons. Uh, but, uh, [00:21:00] he says, well, this is on the Congress cause law and orders with them. What were they doing?
-: Narendra Modi. There is a commitment to the whole world to prevent the humiliation of mother power. But the Congress Party that wants to accuse us, I want to ask a small question. Who is the government there? The government is of the Congress Party. Fake videos will be in your attention only, because they have been released on time.
But why has the Congress Party not carried out its work yet?
Abhinandan: Is this, does this have any political impact at all in the next phase or none?
Anisha: Maybe not, because see, uh, it depends on how strongly, maybe like say as a party, the Congress keeps up the pressure. But the BJP has also successfully created a narrative that Congress leaders also knew about it. And that the [00:22:00] Congress State President D.
K. Shivkumar, uh, he was also given these videos. So in all of this, like, like once the initial, uh, furore and uproar and shock of the videos themselves, uh, kind of lesson, then the blame game starts, right? They knew about it. You know, we didn't do anything. Like we had no idea. So. For about three months, the BJP's leader, uh, Devraja Gowda, he kept on saying that I have these videos, I have these videos, right?
How is it that none of the, uh, state BJP leaders ever knew about this, right? He kept saying in public so many times that he has written to the state president, uh, Vijendra and he's written to the national leadership. See, the national leadership, let's leave it out of it. for the state leadership. Right? He kept on saying that he is, uh, uh, told them about it.
Then once this thing breaks open and explodes, You have him backtracking and saying that, no, uh, I later [00:23:00] realized that it was never, uh, it wasn't delivered to him. I had sent him an email. I sent him a text on WhatsApp. I saw the blue text. And so I thought he saw it. Okay. So it's obviously like he's backtracking on that, right up until then, he was very, very clear about it.
So how do you explain that? And you know, how does the BJP state leadership not know?
Raman: But is JD, does JDS, uh, have any presence in North, uh, Karnataka? No,
Abhinandan: that's BJP all. That's all BJP. No,
Anisha: they don't have much of a presence over there at all. So in fact, you know, Uh, yeah, they used to contest seats earlier and all of that.
And the slowly, slowly their vote margins have, uh, you know, dropped over the years, but they're now concentrated only in four or five districts where they have significant strength. And even there. Uh, you know, the hold is loosening, uh, their strength is eroding.
Abhinandan: So, I mean, clearly the political impact, I don't know whether it'll have any impact in other states, but you know, I'd like to hear what the panel [00:24:00] makes of this, but I was just shocked at the, you know, cause one assumes that a lot of these people who work at broadcast channels are people you've interacted with, you've known them for the last several years.
You know, there is some depths below which they won't fall cause you've known these people, they were regular people at least once upon a time, but. I mean, I wonder if it, there was this like debate that what's this guy's name. His name is Ramappa Timmapur. He's excise minister in the government headed by Siddharam Iyer.
And, uh, he of course made, uh, it's not funny, but he, I guess thought that this is a clever thing to say that he wants to break the record of Lord Krishna. The channels were outraged with the ticker running, uh, That Mr. Ramappa crosses the line. Hurts Hindu sentiment. Hurts Sanatan Dharma. For commenting on this.
But fucking this guy crossing any line. I didn't see this kind of outrage. [00:25:00] In fact, you wrote an article on it. I mean, someone did that. It wasn't even picked up in the first two days. Dude, the guy who is hosting it, the producer, the These people we've known, have their fucking brains got fried? I mean, what do they go home and tell their daughter, their child, their wife, their mother, their sister, that today I got outraged and shouted on primetime and I sat on my bloody chair like there's a fucking burning coal under my ass and I was jumping around because of what this guy said, but I didn't show any such outrage on the act itself.
I mean, we've gone to a different level of You know, uh, disgusting vileness on, on prime time, but that's my rant for the week on this issue. But, uh, Vanisha, you, I believe, have been speaking to some journalists in the South as well. No impact anywhere?
Manisha: No impact anywhere. I think in this case, there's one interesting aspect of the role of the judiciary.
And I was pretty stunned to see a News Minute piece on it, actually, on the number of gag orders that courts in Bengaluru have given. [00:26:00] So, even the first indication of such a video. Uh, existing came from Rewanna who's himself, who went last year in June to the court and filed an injunction order against 86 media outlets that they cannot be talking about a video that may leak out, which is not just media
Abhinandan: outlets.
I've seen that audit also names, Twitter, all meta platforms and YouTube. So even the
Manisha: driver who's supposedly had
Abhinandan: what, so even if one was to do it, yeah,
Manisha: and so And he gets that order and no one talks about it and uh, just from reading from the News Minute article, Deccan Herald over the last 10 years had about 516 injunctions.
Times has had 486 injunctions. So why are these orders being given, A, without hearing the other party? And one thing that Dhanya was also telling me was that the Opposition in Karnataka, which is Congress, uh, in this particular case has not been very vocal about this. They're talking about it, the central leadership is, but the [00:27:00] pressure on Rewanna and statements haven't been, are not that strong as they should be because every politician there has something or the other on them.
Abhinandan: Of this nature?
Manisha: Yeah, it's apparently a thing that, There are lots of videos floating around of different, we don't know of this nature or not. So there's also a problem that this has been called a sex scandal and everything is being blurred. This is not really a sex scandal. This is quite different in terms like there's rape and molestation, but it gets clubbed with sex scandal, which seems to be a problem with all parties there and which shows in numbers with these injunction orders.
Every other party has filed some of the injunction order to stop videos from coming out, which are possibly of this nature. I mean, that could be the only thing that I mean, that's a guess, but so I think parties that are also careful about how strongly they want to go against this person because something can come out against them.
And I think just yesterday, another politician's son has filed an injunction order against some, Iswarappa's son, some hundred media outlets. So I think that [00:28:00] was pretty shocking to me. I didn't know that Bengaluru court was just going away, distributing these injunction orders across. The board, 83 media organizations, 100 media organizations, you can't talk about a video that's going to come out.
Uh, and as far as, I was wondering about this, that is this the end of JDS? Because the scale is huge. And once it's out, I think there's going to be a lot of rage about what this, he's just 33, this Prajwal Rewanna guy. But there's also JDS where the two, um, Prajwal's father and H. D. Kumaraswamy, they don't get along with each other at all.
So H. D. Kumaraswamy's camp would possibly be very happy at just having these guys removed from the party.
Abhinandan: So JDS
Manisha: can actually emerge stronger with just Swamy as the faces sidelining the brother and the grandson. So
Abhinandan: wheels within wheels. So from a legal point of view, this, why, how is it so subjective that, you know, one [00:29:00] court provides injunctions By the way, I know Anisha is busy, she has to work.
So Anisha, whenever you want to go, please let me know. Uh, cause we will carry on for a while.
Anisha: Yeah, so I guess I can step out now possibly.
Abhinandan: Okay. Yeah, sure. Thank you so much. Uh, where are you heading to now? Your next phase? Will you be going up North Karnataka for the, before polling or? Not yet.
Anisha: We'll have to see.
I mean, uh, we're, for now we're going to be in Bangalore, but I still have a couple of stories to work on, which I'm hoping to finish before in a couple of days, so that I can
Abhinandan: figure it out before polling day. Press Freedom Week so that you can also gift a subscription to someone who needs to read reports from independent media.
And like you have seen News Minute and News Laundry focus on ground reports and we have fewer opinion pieces. We only have informed opinion piece of people like Anand Vardhan and other scholars and not just anyone. [00:30:00] So Anand grimaces as I say scholars, but that's the fact. But thank you Anisha. Any recommendations before we say goodbye and you carry on to writing your stories?
Anisha: Dignity, fraternity, knowledge, lessons on Ambedkar's social democracy from Diksha Bhumi by Tejas Bhumi Tabhane, which was published on Cataram. A short essay, I would, uh, urge people to read it if they can.
Abhinandan: Right. Thank you. And have a good weekend. Thank you for having me. All right. Bye.
Anisha: Bye.
Abhinandan: Right. So this, I mean, it is so subjective, right?
It surprises me that, you know, on the one hand, um, you know, I'm quite grateful to the Delhi court. They wanted an injunction against us because India wanted us not to say anything about India today. No matter what, of course. And
Manisha: they would get it in Bangalore,
Abhinandan: I think. They said, no, I mean, you can't get an injunction, you can't.
Dude, uh, uh, Shashi Tharoor didn't get against Republic in spite of the kind of stuff Republic said. I mean, I don't know if our viewers remember that [00:31:00] during that, uh, you know, Sunanda Pushkar's, uh, death case, the kind of They declared him guilty. I mean, the kind of stuff that Arnab used to say, even he did not get an injunction, Shashi Tharoor.
Bangalore keeps bartering injunctions. How is it so subjective?
Anand: I think 86 or 88 Gaga orders have been issued. In Bangalore.
Manisha: On this case. Yes, yes.
Anand: On this alone. Because it is not covering, uh, one order is not covering all media houses. So for getting it against each, you have to, uh, it come, the number came to 86 or 88.
So, uh, see, uh, gag orders are basically the Um, jurisprudence behind is, is that, that it would adversely affect fair trial. If this come things comes out, it will, if that is the reasoning that they give, give that if this, uh, things come out, it will adversely [00:32:00] affect the fair trial because, uh, the judicial Proceeding can be prejudiced against the accused on the basis of the material circulating,
Abhinandan: right?
Anand: Now, uh, The provisions are in the Civil Procedure Code, Order 39, Rule 1, temporary injunction, uh, till the proceeding is going on. And Rule 2. Permanent injunction. If, if the accused is a declared innocent, then permanent injunction because you don't have the defense of truth. So it is slightly different from defamation.
In defamation, you have a defense of truth and then you have defense of fair opinion without malice. And then you have a defense of Privilege, like court proceedings, everything is said, but the court has [00:33:00] privilege of doing it in public interest. So the, but, uh, uh, gag orders are different in, uh, because they somehow, uh, proceed the final judge judgment.
Right. Uh, in recent years, few, uh, more Uh hmm. known cases of gag orders is, if you remember 2014 Justice Sotantra Kumar versus Indian Express. He was accused of sexual harassment by an intern and he had sought an injunction against Indian Express and Delhi High Court had granted it. So, uh, but, but he's a Judge Uhhuh.
There, there are also very different one you mentioned AAMI versus Republic table.
No, then, then there is Vinal versus GTV 2015, I think. And uh, um, [00:34:00] then. There are other circumstances when you can get it, uh, like Sahara versus Sebi case, very famous case.
Manisha: In fact, Pachori also, right before ET was about to break the story on sexual harassment, had got, uh, Yes, he did, I remember.
Anand: In Pachori case, there is a, it's a landmark judgment because the court said that while doing so, The media has to highlight and the font has to be greater.
And if it's a broadcast, the ticker has to be greater than the, than the, um, material means the news running that the matter is sub judice. Right. So, uh, that is in the R. K. Pachauri case in that judgment. The Terry
Abhinandan: Chairman.
Anand: Yes. So jurisprudence about that is that another, but it's so subjective. Yeah. It's subjective.
So, I think all judgments are subjective. It's not. Yeah, I guess. So, um, second thing is, uh, [00:35:00] in this case, I think, uh, why it would, uh, means, uh, the probability of it not becoming a political issue, uh, I think guilt by association in a Indian electorate's psyche guilt by association Is not very strong Like if someone is associated with something and he has done wrong the electorate is not very, um, harsh on him or the party.
Uh, there are so many instances of it. Uh, but this case is also important for, from a different angle that, uh, political or parties As a workplace means political organization as a workplace and the scope of, uh, say sexual opportunity in a workplace [00:36:00] in, uh, while running a political party. Now, that has been under examined because of different regions be political activity as an occupation has been under examined in India because there are people who are.
Uh, say throughout the year political activists now political active, uh, work as, as work as a profession. And, uh, this, uh, um, say a kind of, uh, abstract entity sometimes without any physical, uh, Um, a space to think about political organization as a workplace. Now, the sections they have sought under IPC are like 354 D that is Visakha guidelines.
One is about a stalking and then 354, stalking has all. In fact, the famous
Abhinandan: Bhavri Devi case was that that was a workplace, right? That when she went [00:37:00] out, To villages, that was a workplace which actually set up the Vishaka guidelines. So in that abstract sense, I guess that could also apply here. This is what you said.
Manisha: And yeah, it'll be interesting to see how many parties have a functioning ICC.
Abhinandan: If there has been
Manisha: harassment within the party, where
Abhinandan: do you, where
Manisha: do you go file a complaint? We
Abhinandan: should do a joint report with the newsmen around this. How many of them do have an ICC? Uh, Raman sir, yours before I go to Tanishka, she can comment on this and also tell us about Maharashtra.
I mean, what do you make of this, the media coverage, the political, political kind of narrative around this. I
Raman: am not aware if his case was already under the police scanner when the gag orders were given. Okay. So this is the first thing, the gag orders, uh, they matter if the case is under the police scanner.
And there is a threat to the individual's, li Liberty. So that is why the gag order was given. So gag order, oh, if it impacts the proceedings as an unfair, there's no trial [00:38:00] in this case. So in that case, I mean, the case was not even under the police scan. It was not even being examined, whether it's a fit case to be, uh, to file an affair.
I Hmm. And the gag orders were just given is absolutely, uh, you know, something, which, uh, it's very unusual. I think legally have very unusual. So, and, uh, second, uh, now when the SIT is formed, I was discussing, I mean, I find it very civilized, uh, you know, uh, way of, uh, dealing with the case. Uh, of course we can, I mean, let us see what the outcome is going to be, but at least, uh, you know, Karnataka has not reacted the way UP and Madhya Pradesh used to react to Uh, you know, by demolishing the, how, and imagine, I mean, if this guy who was a Muslim, what would have had happened, you know, in a state ruled by the BJP.
Yeah. So, uh, so I think, uh, we should, uh, wait and watch. Uh, it is definitely shocking. 3000. [00:39:00] I mean, there are certain facts which have come out and the facts that the 3000 such videos exist. And in these, these videos, more or less, you know, uh, are talking about the molestation. Uh, even if it is consensual, it has to be proved.
So, so this is quite shocking and, and, and more shocking is that the politicians knew about it. Yeah. Uh, they had been discussing it, uh, through the press conference and even, uh, in public space.
Manisha: But that's what I'm saying. Yet no case
Raman: was filed.
Manisha: I think the understanding was that these are just sleaze videos.
I don't think they understood the criminality aspect of
Abhinandan: it. Clearly. I mean, at least mine, I won't speak on behalf of all those are understanding of what matters politically is very disconnected from what matters politically to people like I would have think this is complete deal breaker, even if you have no sense of if you have no moral compass, no ethics, purely.
Practically, you'd say this candidate is a disaster. Clearly, he's not. And the Indian public [00:40:00] also seems to think that this is okay. So I mean, it's at least some part, a significant amount to not, you know, for it not to not impact him politically.
Manisha: Just one thing I wanted to add on the legal aspect of the case with these videos, it will be important to have some evidence of the guy in the video, which it seems He's, the allegation is he's shooting it.
So then much of the case will depend on the testimonies of the victims and the driver, who's the key witness. And I think in this case, it's very scary because these videos were circulated with like pen drives, you know, thrown in parks, put in parking benches, just circulated without morphing the faces of these women who are going to face immense pressure from their.
you know, immediate family, their peers, there's going to be social shaming. So you may have a lot of witnesses who may just want to not come forward and
Abhinandan: not
Manisha: take part in this at all. So I think the SIT should also examine who circulated these videos without, I mean, it's, it's really terrible for [00:41:00] the women.
Who are in these videos? Good luck
Abhinandan: with that. We still don't know who had delivered those Radia tapes to all the studios still today. For 20 years have passed. We still don't know who delivered those tapes, uh, those recordings, but, uh, Anand, you want to say something? I'll go to Tanishka and rewind this. No,
Anand: just I'm adding point of gag orders that, in most of the cases, courts Uh, issue gag orders, but a state and central governments can also issue, uh, like when you see that, uh, some communal tension is there and the government says that no broadcast channel will play this.
That is also a kind of gag order that government issues. Second thing is that, uh, it is also, uh, the community that The person was representing that, that the panelists also referred to that one. Also, the position of this party as a moving piece between two rival alliances in the [00:42:00] state. Mm. It can go either side till in 2018 it was, uh, an ally of the Congress.
Abhinandan: Right. So no one wants to do a, I mean, no one wants to break up that you can't make up again. Hmm. So that's why I guess there goes softer it. That's interesting. So, Tanishka, you want to weigh in on this and then tell us about Baramati uh, or will be voting shortly in Maharashtra, uh, by the time this episode goes up, they would have voted, right?
No, no. This is going up on Sunday. May 7th is
Tanishka: when.
Abhinandan: May 7th. Right. Okay, fine. Uh, sorry. Yeah, Tanishka, go ahead.
Tanishka: So when it comes to this I think, uh, how much it's going to dominate political ecosystem in the time to come really depends on how much the opposition in Karnataka can also take it forward which I don't think they really will since, uh, fingers can also be pointed to them since they are the ruling party there.
And, uh, again, like Manisha mentioned, just calling this a sex scandal is, uh, certainly very disrespectful to the women, because regardless [00:43:00] of how consensual it seems, there is a very skewed, um, power dynamic there. So I think again, media really needs some sensitizing of, uh, how you really take issues forward.
Abhinandan: Yeah. Right. And, uh, what about Maharashtra? First tell us where all you've been, what is the kind of bill I should be expecting on travel? Uh, and I hope you have been eating in the Lord's home, which are gurudwaras, so you can save New Zealand a lot from She is
Manisha: living with her family in Bombay, so we are cost cutting like this.
Abhinandan: Oh, right. Very good. No hotel
Manisha: bills.
Abhinandan: And when she travels to Baramati, etc.? Then
Manisha: we say, ghar se tiffin pack karke jao.
Abhinandan: Okay. So, chalo, very good. I must say. Manisha and Raman sir have really internalized the ethos of Ya chane,
Manisha: mufli khaalo. Abhinandan
Abhinandan: ki kanjusi. But, ya, um, what is it like, I mean Mr. Pawar probably has the longest, when we come to Bihar, I'm sure Anand will come up with someone from his home state who has a longer innings, but Mr.
[00:44:00] Pawar has dominated Maharashtra politics for so long. Is, is he, is he a, as, as they say, phuka hua kartu, so is he still, he can, he can, he can rock the world over there.
Tanishka: I mean, in Baramati, the sympathy wave for him really can't be denied because even those who have chosen to side with the Ajit faction, whether party workers or voters, uh, feel an immense sense of gratitude for him.
And you know, there's the sentiment that if Sharad Pawar was not born in Baramati, where would we be? So that sentiment is very much there. But it's like gotten people really confused how much this will translate into vote. Um, so I spent three days in Baramati, uh, across the area, speaking to people and, um, some people are very determined that they are going to continue to support Sharad Pawar, but the others are, uh, leaning towards Ajit because they think that the future, the future He will be able to contribute more, you know, and his [00:45:00] position also in MCP has been that he's been the one looking after the local, uh, problems in Baramati.
So people associate that development, future development also with him. Um, so, you know, sometimes not realizing that they were functioning together. But this, um, sort of which NCP are supporting has got like not just family divided, uh, the Pawar family divided, but even though, uh, just families of people in Baramati, you know, I mean, one single family has people supporting different factions.
So, um, it's causing a lot of. Confusion as to which is the real NCP and people often confuse, uh, even while I was in conversation with them, you know, they refer to Suneetra, Supriya, Supriya, Suneetra. So just for
Abhinandan: our audience's benefit, just explain what are the two factions and who are the names associated?
Which faction is starring who?
Raman: And who are the contestants? No one is talking about contestants. Everybody's talking about
Tanishka: Pawar. Exactly. But both the [00:46:00] contestants are also Pawars essentially. Who is Aji p's uh, wife, uh, who is contesting from the Aji led, uh, NCP. Um, and this is a first election, but she's been working, uh, be behind the scenes last, uh, almost two decades helping her own, uh, family.
And the other side is Sule, who has been a three time mp, who's contesting from the sha Pavar, NCP. So they have, and she's
Abhinandan: Sharad's daughter,
Tanishka: Sharad's
Abhinandan: nephew. So they are first cousins.
Tanishka: Yes. Yes.
Abhinandan: Right.
Tanishka: And both the factions pretend that this is not going to affect family ties. Um, but, uh, it clearly has because, uh, even in the speeches that the powers have been making, not just the contesting powers, but the rest of the family has also had to choose sides.
So I did provide his nephew, uh, I did provide his brother and nephew is on shut up by my side. And, um, I did own children, of course, so [00:47:00] there is a lot
Abhinandan: of children.
Tanishka: Ajit's children are with Ajit. Right. But Ajit's nephew is with Sharad. Is
Abhinandan: with Sharad. Okay. Yeah.
Tanishka: So in our story, we have a nice little family tree to really show who is with who, because it gets quite confusing, even for people on ground, even the party workers, because until a few months ago, they were all working as one, you know, so on the surface, the party workers also seem very confident with their faction that is going to be, but, um, in off record conversations, a lot of them expressed, um, sympathy or rather wanting the other side to win, you know, and just sort of speaking about how tough the battle is.
So like without exaggeration, I think this election is really going to seal the fate of NCP at least because this is the first election that NCP is fighting as to and, uh, Baramati is. Is really what got NCP into Maharashtra politics and then beyond. So, um, [00:48:00] depending on who wins this battle will sort of seal the future, you know, as to their future.
Abhinandan: So, uh, just the, um, campaigns that the ad campaigns there, you know, I was seeing the shifts and has a very interesting digital ad campaign. They have really clever ads. Well made. I mean, I would expect that since Bollywood is the heart of the cinema industry. Uh, what is a campaign there? Like, because I remember was it the election commission or the court that the Shalivar faction went to that, you know, not only are giving them the symbol and the name, they were also using his face in their campaign.
He says, they can't use my face. You know, I, I am me, I'm on this side. And there was no, we should be allowed to use his face. So other posters using his face. As you succeed in saying my face is mine, so only I can use it.
Tanishka: Yeah, not anymore. Now, Ajit Pawar faction uses their own faces and Modi's face, of course, and Fadnavis and, uh, Eknath Shinde.
But, uh, interestingly, I mean, um, I know there has been talk about how elections are [00:49:00] a little dull this time. And even in Baramati, um, despite this being such a high profile battle, There was not as much noise as you would expect, you know, there was hoardings. It's just the autos and tractors roaming around that have their posters.
Um, so I, I think in Maharashtra, there's also a lot of just fatigue over the political, uh, that has happened in the last few years. So even in Bombay and I'm in Aurangabad now, there is, um, just that feeling of, does it even matter who we vote for when essentially it's all going to be, you know, mixed match.
I had
Manisha: two questions of Tanishka. One was this, like, leave the party workers aside, but regular neutral voters. Did you sense this? Feeling of exasperation with, because Maharashtra has seen so much turmoil. Shiv Sena, NCP, you know, there's just been,
Raman: so is there like an exasperation?
Manisha: And is there any anger against the BJP that you sense that they [00:50:00] kind of engineered this breakup between this?
Or this family. And
Raman: I think you have maximum turn codes also in Mara. Hmm.
Tanishka: Yeah. Like you said earlier, Raman said that Mara has given a whole new definition of turn codes, you know, because it's entire parties in, uh, bar, there is definitely, uh, especially with those supporting Shahar p um, that anger towards the BJ p also because they believe that this has happened because of them and, uh, because, uh, of, uh, a's cases, ED cases, uh.
From which she's gotten a clean shit now. So there is also that knowledge about the washing machine, uh, washing machine phenomena. And, um, I remember before I'd gone, we'd spoken about how we should really focus on how the powers are educating people about the new symbol, because for years of having the clock symbol, now they have a complete new symbol.
It's a man blowing a tutari, but everyone seems to know what the tutari is. And it's also such an instrument that, um, really makes a lot of noise. So that. [00:51:00] That effort of educating people about it has gone really well for the Sharad faction, but now there's also an independent candidate in Baramati who's also been given a tutari.
So they are, they filed a complaint with the election commission now because they think that voters might get confused. But in Bari, um, everyone is very aware of, uh, the split. Uh, they have their opinions on why it happened, um, and are, uh, like almost everyone is a traditional NCP voter in Bari. You know, I think I had like in-depth conversation with 30 voters out of which 28 have been voting for NCP four generations since they got the right to vote.
So for a lot of them, this is a very, uh. big choice to make because it's the first time they're
Abhinandan: actually making a choice. Like otherwise it was just reflex action, like my grandmother's generation. No matter what happens or people from the Sangh. This time they actually have to make a choice.
Tanishka: Yes. Yes, definitely.
And a lot of them are going to be. They said that they're going to go [00:52:00] according to just what their whole, uh, their neighborhood also will be going with, uh, some of them have sort of come up with this, uh, that we'll keep Sharad Pawar faction in Lok Sabha and we will keep, um, Ajit Pawar faction in the, uh, Legislative Assembly.
Yeah. Some of them also do see that they believe in the whole double engine phenomena. They think that if they vote for Ajit Pawar, they will get even more benefits because they'll be able to vote with the center. They'll be able to work much better.
Abhinandan: So,
Tanishka: and so many layers like this one voter was a, is a Muslim voter who does not want to see a Modi come into power and he's Very articulately against the hate policies that he believes Mo, these government is creating.
But he's still going to vote for Aji PBA because he believes that in his area at least Aji should represent him because development. So there are a lot of layers even to individuals, interesting voters, uh, decision.
Abhinandan: Uh, so good luck with the rest of your [00:53:00] travels, the Neka. Thank you so much for, bring us up to date with this and please bring me up to date with the budgets also.
Uh, and. First of all, we must thank our, uh, subscribers, huh, she is
Raman: eating, uh,
Abhinandan: fasting, this is the thing. Come work at Newslaundry and also get advice, diet advice, Raman's has been doing intermittent fasting the longest time and he's been convincing me I'll vanish if I do any more fasting. But, um, uh, thank you.
By the way, we had six election funds. They were all topped up. So really grateful. Yay. Which is why our journalists are able to go on the ground now. Manish shall be going, uh, to I guess a few other states.
Raman: Yeah. UL is living for, he's already investment tomorrow. He's is living tomorrow. He's living tomorrow.
Abhinandan: He's living tomorrow. Okay. So, so thank you. Uh, but do. Please spread the word, do continue to contribute so that the aim is that we should have two journalists between News Minute and [00:54:00] News Laundry together in every state in the country. Right now we just have it about seven states or eight and I think 27 states in the country they keep increasing so I lose count.
Uh, so the link is in the show notes below. Avail of our, uh, Press freedom week offer. Uh, and if you don't just subscribe anyway, spread the word, tell your friends, relatives, et cetera. Tanishka, before you go, recommendation that would enrich the lives of our listeners. Since you're in Mumbai, I'm hoping it'll be some entertainment piece.
Tanishka: Oh God, no, no. I'd like to recommend my own story in Baramati, Ajit and Sunetra. versus Sahil and Supriya, uh, which is also done because of people who supported our work. So I think that's the piece to read right now.
Abhinandan: Thanks Anushka. All the best and travel safe. So I do want to spend some time talking about the prime minister's speeches.
So I would like to give 10, 15 minutes to that. Uh, but before we get to that, you know, a bit about Bihar, I know you've been here, milord. [00:55:00] Uh, so you haven't been back home in Bihar, but
Anand: Back home in Bihar, I am in my room.
Abhinandan: It's not like you're, it's not like you're, it's not like you're standing in the nukkad eating chana and saying, aaj na, main batata You're not one of those, but no, but I just want to, uh, get your view on, according to many people, Two states will determine this election.
One is Maharashtra and one is Bihar, because including the Indian Express article, which specifically spoke about Maharashtra, that it's a pollster's nightmare to call Maharashtra. It also appears it's a pollster's nightmare to call Bihar. Uh, not that pollsters have been phenomenally correct, but you know, there's some sort of logic that they can go by.
Uh, do you think. It is as unpredictable Bihar and Maharashtra are the two states that will be the two battleground because there is an equal fight there. Uh, [00:56:00] and this entire politics of Bihar is significant Muslim population in phase two, the prime minister suddenly from his other plank of whatever it was, that I'm so amazing and great and vote for me just because I'm me has gone to key.
Tumhari ek bhehans le lenge, lenge, I want to ask you man, meri bhehans nahi hai, toh mera kya le lenge? So, I'm just wondering. Mere baas sona bhi nahi hai. Toh laptop bhi ek hai. Tumhara media company
Manisha: le lenge. Media company,
Abhinandan: that's true. Woh logon ki hai. I'm a politician ki tarah mola na, ekdum. So, uh, yeah, tell us, yeah, is, uh, okay, which is more difficult in your, in your Uh, view to analyze outcomes.
Bahar
Anand: and Mara may be battlegrounds. I will come to that, but they will determine the outcome of the national pools. I am not convinced about that.
Abhinandan: Hmm.
Anand: It is, uh, just like sometimes what commentators do, that there is a boring football match going on, and [00:57:00] what is the commentator's duty there to somehow animate it.
Mm-Hmm. Somehow liven it up. Like this is happening. That is happening, but the spectator is knowing that it's a boring match. So that is that. So that is the, so, uh, and second is, uh, um, means bihar battle, uh, battleground for two, three regions. Um, generally. Uh, if you see the last assembly polls, 2020, so if you see the tally, seat tally, Bihar is the most unique state which has given seats to say, uh, right of center party like BJP, a centrist party like Congress, low height parties like JDU and RJD.
Uh, institutional left like CPI, CPIML, it has given seats to it. It has given seats to OASI's [00:58:00] party. You will not have a such diverse, uh, seat tally in any state. So because of its diverse, the diverse political affiliations of the electorate, it has become a tricky thing to But having said that, there is one distinction to be made that Bihar is a state of very dense population.
Within a limited area, a lot of people live. So when assembly comes to Lok Sabha, the, um, because of the delimitation, the, Assembly elections, like many other states are not, not a good predictor of the
Abhinandan: Lok
Anand: Sabha elections because the caste arithmetic and a lot of things change in Lok Sabha because of it's a larger area and two, three assembly segments are in one Lok Sabha seat.
So [00:59:00] that is, uh, third is after the caste census, which, uh, Mr. Nitish jointly did. It is not clear that the non OB electorate, uh, now ADA electorate is supposed to be with Mr. Jehu, the rrg d it's, uh, MY, uh, is a stronghold of Muslim yadada combined, but, uh, it is not clear that the non other, uh, um, OBC vote, vote bank, and even the EBCs, they are going to give credit to Mr.
Nish Kumar or. Mr. Yadav. And, um, third thing is that the job promise, though it's a very, uh, wrong way of giving employment that, uh, that's another debate. They had promised to 20 lakh jobs and they, uh, during safe 12, 14 months with [01:00:00] Mr. Yadav, four lakhs jobs were given. And the appointment letters were given now.
RGD is willing to cast and trying to cast on it. So, uh, now, uh, then again, the credit game that who, uh, also, uh, what has happened is that within, uh, last two or three years, Nitish has done, uh, two switches. Now he's, uh, uh, and it's a spillover effect on BJP as, uh, the senior partner in the NDA alliance.
Maybe. Uh, incalculable. Incalculable. Not in the extreme sense. That's the wrong uncertain. Uncertain. Um, it's, it's uncertain that what's the spillover effect of it? Now these things make, uh, uh. Combined to make it a tight race [01:01:00] at this point of time. But, uh, uh, it'll also see, uh, uh, two things will also determine that.
Uh, VJ Ps, uh, there are two, only two card based parties in bha. Rest of them are headquarters driven, VJP and RJD. Now the worker strength of which in, in a scenario of low turnout, which. She, uh, party has greater organizational strength to take out the committed voters out of their homes and make them to vote.
Abhinandan: And that I think is a challenge of this election because at least in the, in UP, in Mathura and one more day before yesterday's newspaper had the data. There's been a four to 6 percent drop. In fact, it was less than 50 percent the turnout in some of these places in the UP, which is, which is quite distressing, but you know, uh, so that on that, but just what Anand said, just to give our audience a.
Perspective, just give the [01:02:00] context. Bihar has 40 seats, LOA seats in 2019. BJP one 17, the Al United one 16, the Ljp one six. This the combine of the NDA 1 39, and the Congress won one. So the likelihood of. Improvement there is negligible. Whereas they also got 100 percent in Rajasthan. They got 100 percent in Gujarat, in Madhya Pradesh.
They got all but Shindwara. Now it seems that it's unlikely Gujarat will see any swing any other way. So which is why Bihar, because suddenly these guys and, and Tejaswi's campaign is quite interesting. This his whole idea of playing the PM speech.
-: Transcript by Rev. com Page 10 of 10[01:03:00]
Abhinandan: You know, I think this has been suggested in the Hafta only, uh, by several people, including me, that they should treat rallies like a rock show. It's not just about a person speaking. Start off with an AV, respond to the AV, use the videos of those people. And I think he's done it. And suddenly that clip of his went viral.
He said, Oh, so brilliant genius. Of course, this genius is the most obvious thing to do. You can cut. Uh, entire, instead of these reels just playing on Insta, play them on a stage and then respond to that. Cause that just gives you an excuse, which very few politicians can show anything. This is why I'm good.
Most people are convinced to vote because that person is so shit. You know, like Anand will tell me who said this, that, uh, democracy is choosing the least worst option.
Anand: I think it's Churchill said it. I may be wrong, but we'll go with it. That's okay. As far as I remember, if you're
Abhinandan: wrong, people will still believe that it must be Churchill.
If I say it, then people will check.[01:04:00]
But I just think it's a fantastic way of, you know, uh, Carrying out a campaign, just react to the others like Modiji is doing. He has been here 10 years. He has not said this is what I've done. He keeps saying this is what they're going to do. Um, but, uh, yeah, on, on this. More than
Raman: his own governance, he has been talking about.
Yeah. You know what Nehru had done, what Indira Gandhi had done. All what Congress made was to come to power.
Abhinandan: But before we get into the speeches, like in the headlines, we said the gems of the week. Uh, cause I'm just blown away by his, you know, campaign. It's 2014 wasn't like this, 2019 wasn't like this. I don't know whether it's desperation, whether it is.
I have a theory which I'll come to later, but Manesh you want to comment on Bihar and then tell me what you think about the gems of the week.
Manisha: So, on Bihar, I don't want to comment. I think Anand has given us a good overview. On the gems of Prime Minister Modi, I think it's really fascinating what's playing out.
And, uh, it [01:05:00] starts off in Baswara in Rajasthan, the first speech. And to understand it, I think, uh, one really needs to look at what's been happening in Rajasthan and the reports coming out from there. And to a few motor mouthed BJP candidates. So, Nagore candidate there, sometime in March, she says that, you know, uh, Congress, we need 400 power to change the constitution and, uh, there's a few other leaders who say that, that if you want to amend the constitution, we need 400 part.
Now the opposition, there's very quick to pick this up. And Hanuman Beniwal, who's now in alliance with Congress, with the India picks it up immediately and says that this is a code word for changing reservation. And the Congress leadership very effectively spreads mass propaganda that they are going to take away your reservation.
And this Congress has its effect in Rajasthan, a state that voted on the face of Modi just for state assembly.
Abhinandan: 100 percent result.
Manisha: And now has suddenly there's a fight. I mean, reporters who've gone there, ground reports that are coming from there [01:06:00] says there's a takkar ki laddai ho rahi hai maa pe. Uh, to the point, even this latest controversy of the Delhi police filing an FIR against a morphed video of Amit Shah saying that we're going to take away reservation.
So Congress really spreads this. There's disquiet among OBCs, Dalits. Uh, that what do they really mean by changing constitution and it's very interesting if you see interviews that Modi has been given or even Amit Shah has been given to Smita Prakash. She goes at length explaining that we will never change constitution.
We can, no one can even touch Ambedkar's constitution because the opposition effectively uses Ambedkar's constitution to signal that they're going to take away reservations. And the counter to this then comes, I think, Uh, which BJP often, you know, resorts to sort of a formula that if there are caste anxieties, then you can kind of turn it around and introduce religion into it.
So then suddenly they flip the narrative and make it all about OBCs, SCSTs need to be worried about their rights being given to Muslims.
Abhinandan: Inheritance tax, because there's so much inheritance in that segment of society. Or you just
Manisha: change that anxiety among the lowered castes that [01:07:00] their reservation may go by saying that actually your rights will go to OBCs.
a religious grouping, which this government favors or the Congress government. So it's at the face of it may seem that the BJP is setting the narrative with this anti Muslim rhetoric, but it's actually responding to a narrative that the opposition had been very successful in kind of spreading on ground.
And the second thing
Abhinandan: So you think it's a response to that?
Manisha: I do think. And I, secondly, I do think that Um, there is an over analysis also that they're scared, or they're scared, or they're worried. I mean, I don't know, because you really have to travel the length and breadth of the country to come to such an analysis, how scared they are, or whatever.
But I think rallies are also about, uh, essentially communicating to your booth workers, to your core voter base, to give them something to get excited about. And I think this is also BJP's way of spicing up an election. Which people are complaining again and again that it's boring. Because this is really what enthuses the core voter.
Uh, your booth workers who can then start this conversation, you know, in [01:08:00] nookers or whatever. And use this as a rallying point to get more and more people out. So it's also communicating to your core base that, it's really spicing up elections, I think. That's the second aspect to it. I don't think it's because they're scared or they're scared.
We'll know the results, how much of that is true. But I think. I wouldn't buy that aspect of the analysis coming out of it.
Abhinandan: Right. Um, you, what, what is your take on this?
Raman: Uh, completely agree with you, Manisha. And, uh, I mean, I have also been very closely seeing that anything that should talk about OBC or the SC ST and.
I mean, operation has effectively done it. So they, he is linking it with the religion. I mean, recently, I think today is there in the newspaper that till I die, I will never let, you know, reservation happen on the basis of religion. No one is talking about it.
Abhinandan: No [01:09:00] one
Raman: is talking about it.
Manisha: And more importantly, the center already has a list where Muslims are accommodated within including in Gujarat, including in all these states.
Yes.
Raman: So, so, uh, so he is worried. In fact, he has spoken, uh, he has told his, uh, you know, contesting, uh, colleagues that they should go and tell people that we are not going to change the constitution. This has also come out. Yeah. In one of the, you know, workers meeting, he has, he has said all these workers should go hit the ground and say that we, the BJP will never, ever change the constitution.
Abhinandan: I mean, I have another, you know, take on this. A, I think it is a part of at least what I have observed is, see it's clear 2014 he fought completely on development. It was achche den achche. There was no communal campaign.
Manisha: And UPA's misdemeanors.
Abhinandan: So the fact that there has been such a huge shift, I think does have to [01:10:00] do with maybe desperation is too extreme a word to use that you're running out of ideas.
So you are going to fall back on this. If you remember Bengal and also Delhi, both where they got decimated. The entire play of communal card came at the end. Now, whether that is because they see that the rest is not working. So they say, let's throw all our eggs into the Hindu Muslim basket. It didn't work in Bengal.
It didn't work in Delhi and that entire riot, depending on who you believe. Engineered, not engineered by whom, if you want to believe that trashy book that I think Open India has also been part of writing or whatever, which it was a riot against the Hindus, because clearly, you know, 15 percent people are going to write against 80, 85%, but anyway, um, But if you see the trend is that even in Madhya Pradesh, do you remember when, when Mamu was shafted and another chief minister made?
Right till the end, [01:11:00] there was no mention of bulldozer. He came up with that at the end. It was all about Mamu ne, ladli scheme, ye vo. Right at the end, they come up with the Hindu Muslim angle. I think it's when they want to, you know, it's a Hail Mary basically, it's when you throw the kitchen sink at it.
Otherwise it would be a consistent thing right throughout. The second thing is, I think the kind of bizarre thing the prime minister says, it is, I may be overanalyzing it, but I really thought of this. I thought I'd write a piece, but I said, you'll say, but I still might. I've mentioned the online disinhibition syndrome.
Often Time magazine had done a cover story five, six years ago. Now there are a lot of Scholarly papers. In fact, if you Google this online disinhibition syndrome or online disinhibition effect, there are lots of scholarly articles written by psychoanalysts, psychiatrists, psychologists on what it is doing to us.
Because when there is no immediate repercussion of what you say, you tend to be nastier, [01:12:00] meaner, crueler, uh, more extreme, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, because I mean, let alone anybody else, one person who keeps telling me, I don't say anything because he's a neighbor. I keep crossing him on the street. But online, on, on Twitter, he keeps saying, Abe saale naqsal dikhaad teri toh bandh kar denge, I'm so glad you got rated and all.
And then I'll walk in the morning and I'll see him and we'll smile at each other. He'll never say that to my face. You see, the thing is, so the thing, and I don't even want to make it awkward, I don't type him and say, Twitter mein kya bol raha tha? So, so the point is, it makes us, Now, what is happening with Mr.
Modi is, now why does it happen? It's not just because it's digital. The psychology is, you don't, you're not questioned about it. There is no pushback. So I think you start talking complete nonsense. In, in Mr. Modi's case, his online disinhibition syndrome has become offline because no one is going to question him.
Boss, aap kya Who has said bhaiyaan shall be taken away? Inheritance tax of But he knows he doesn't [01:13:00] have to answer these questions. That ridiculous, cringe interview by those three editors sitting. One saying, aap itne tough decisions kaise lete hain? Another saying, oh aap itne maan kaise hain? Aapme power kaise aati hain?
And the best part is And today's ad, TV9 is saying Five editors. Paanch editor aur ek. Abhi baaz baith ke kya karoge? Matlab
Manisha: Just on the CNN News, CNBC interview, they raised this question of You said that gold, silver will be given to Muslims by Adivasis and Dalits. The question is, is this threat real?
That's the question. Is this threat real?
-: There was a direct attack on a Congress manifesto. You even said that they have a scheme with which they want to distribute wealth. They want to find out who has how much savings, who has how much money, who has how much gold, silver, silver. I don't believe it. And they want to distribute that information among Muslims and Ghusbaitis.
Is this threat so real? Does it seem so? Do you
Manisha: really think the threat is real? If it is real,
-: then it must be real. And
Manisha: then Modi gives a [01:14:00] 5 minute lecture that this is the media's job, you are not doing anything. I had to step in and educate the country about what is happening. You have not done anything.
So basically the
Raman: And enlightening the media. It was really funny.
Abhinandan: The question was framed that way. So the disinhibition syndrome is not because, purely because it is digital, it is because there is no pushback. No one, you don't have to explain your position to anyone. It is beyond. Now, in Mr. Modi's case, his online disintegration syndrome has become offline.
He's completely disinhibited, uninhibited. So he's saying, which is why it's important to question. And that is true for everybody. Everybody's talking such shit because they know they don't have like this. Brajwal's father, this is not, it happened five years ago. Oh, then it's okay. Like which idiot, which moron will say that only a moron who knows There's no pushback.
You do not have to answer. So I think Mr. Modi's bizarre outlandish gems are [01:15:00] the offline function of the online, online disinhibition syndrome. I've said my psycho analysis because as you know, I'm a trained psychiatrist. Now let's ask the train judge. What do you make of this strategically do? Do you think there's a pattern to each election?
It starts off on development or others? It explain
Manisha: to us. The bjps No, my
Anand: cliched way of saying anything, uh, quite repetitive is that, uh, we can see it the essential point of it and the immediate, the essential is that, uh mm. The right of center formations have always since 1920 fought elections very seriously.
Even if they have been decimated, they have fought every election very seriously because they know the value of power and for furthering their agenda. So, uh, What you are [01:16:00] saying is that reconfiguration of public sphere in last few years, like, has also contributed to how he pitches himself. The essential point is that, To keep, though that is not a very decisive number to win an election, to keep the core voter on his side and very assured of it, minoritism and appeasement would be played up.
Minoritism as a form of appeasement on religious grounds, that would be played up, but he knows that is not enough to win an election. Otherwise, elections in India would be very simple. So, uh, then again, what Uh, she was pointing out that like, you see 2015 election, uh, bz P is one of the key Es against RHS [01:17:00] is that Berg's statement made them lose that election about o ob reservation policy has to be revised.
Sure. So that was. Though there were other factors also, but the sheer misinterpretation of Hitori's chance and he gave a very solid material for the opposition to work with. Now, a similar thing, uh, like, uh, This, uh, dangling this danger that the constitution revision would be there and one of the essentials of it would be, uh, taking away the reservation.
Now that's a catch up game that he has been confronted with. How to respond to that. So these things are there, but, uh, I think, uh, he has, uh, there is not any election in which he [01:18:00] has not subtly put the Hindu interest point, even in one election, uh, there is not a complete election in which none of his speeches touched upon essential core Hindu interest thing.
He, some, he does that. Sometimes subtly, sometime, sometimes in CRAs. Yeah. But because, so, uh, I'm not subtlely, clearly . So, uh, for him it is, uh, say a matter of ideological conviction. People may on the other side may see it differently. Also the context of each state he sees he may Speak very differently in North Bihar.
He will speak differently in South Bihar I am coming back to Bihar because that was one reference point I see and that contest is I think for every political party now See, Rahul Gandhi, for all his campaign against the misuse of [01:19:00] central agencies in Kerala, he says that why the chief minister of Kerala didn't present himself to CBI investigation and E.
D. probe and Why he is still free. He has many words. So He le Why is so he's leg legitimizing the action of the central agencies. There he is working within the contest of the, uh, state politics. So that is also there.
Raman: Combination no. So far as his ideological constructors, I, I have no problem with that. I mean, he's ideologically, he's ous.
So he speaks about it, but his rhetorics are so off the ground. I mean, his rhetoric, he is factually so wrong. The Prime Minister is factually so wrong and he's getting away with it is something which and that's where I support what you're saying. No questions are asked. No, for example, this
Abhinandan: whole inheritance tax thing that today there are two pieces on it or one piece in the Indian Express on [01:20:00] the op ed pages.
When did this become an issue? No one has advocated an inheritance tax in that sense, but it's become a debate. They. managed to make something the centerpiece, which is not the centerpiece. Like it's suddenly. So, I mean, I, I just find that fascinating. So Manisha, I'll give you the last word on the political rhetoric, anything that we may have missed before we get onto the emails and the feedback from our audience.
Manisha: No, I think we've covered everything on the,
Abhinandan: right. Um, so now you can get to
Manisha: the letters, you get
Abhinandan: to the letters and your feedback. Uh, we only entertain The criticism, the critique, the feedback of subscribers, so only for the subscriber will your email or letter be included here. Uh, and although we keep insisting that you keep it below 200 words many times you cross it, but today I'm happy to see most of them are below 200 words.
Uh, so you can write in at podcasts at newslaundry. com, I repeat, podcasts at newslaundry. com or click on the link in the show notes below, it'll open out a window and you can fill in your feedback there. That is a much more efficient and better way of doing it. [01:21:00] But we also check our inbox. So will you please do the honors, Manisha?
Manisha: So Aarti says, Hi Hafta team on the topic of political elections. I'm curious generally if there's any intellectual capacity or curiosity anywhere, either in Indian context or elsewhere. With the same five year term or less governments for alternate models, clearly it seems to me that short termism in politics is not really working in the favor of the common public.
It's given us greedy politicians, short term thinking in policymaking, building institutions and services that serve the public long term, not on the agenda of any political party. Isn't this the root of most problem? Are we as human beings so dull to never reimagine? Can proportional representation plus longer political terms be explored?
or other ideas like that.
Abhinandan: I have no view on this. You've, you've traveled. What do you think?
Manisha: I haven't understood the question actually. There is short term, that the politicians are thinking short term?
Raman: In the present, uh, you know, the political system that we have is not [01:22:00] serving the
Abhinandan: Alternate models. Does she
Manisha: mean to, to limit a term of a government to five terms, I mean to one term, and then make sure that that is not repeated, like you can't contest an election beyond two terms and that.
Abhinandan: I'm not sure, actually. I'm confused. Aarti, you've confused us. Clearly, there's no intellectual capacity here. This is too much
Manisha: above. You can
Anand: read again.
Manisha: Okay, now you understand then I'm reading. No,
Anand: everyone will understand. Well, the second reading gives on the topic of
Manisha: political elections, I'm curious generally if there's an any intellectual capacity or curiosity anywhere, either in the Indian context or elsewhere with the same five year term or less governments for alternate models.
Abhinandan: Basically. I think that won't work. It'll be worse even, I think,
Manisha: huh? And you don't want that.
Anand: And then. There would be no incentive for good governance if you are not getting re elected. So that's
Manisha: what she meant, that you limit the second term, basically, you don't allow a party to sort [01:23:00] of No, no, I don't think that's a good model.
I think people should be Political party,
Raman: no. But yes, I mean, if somebody has served as PM for two years Yeah, no, that
Abhinandan: I think The US has that, right? You can't, third time, you can't. You can't be third term president. I think that actually, Is important. I think you should have that for chief ministers. You should have that for prime ministers
Raman: that will make parties more democratic
Manisha: and they'll be
Abhinandan: performance compression and they'll
Manisha: be churned within the party.
Correct. You can insulate it from one man's taking over.
Manan says, Hi, I don't know whether you know or not. There was dirty politics played in Surat, Gujarati. Shorter version is that Congress candidate made mistakes in application form and got rejected. So we have a very good piece by Basant on this, which does hint at a collusion between Congress and BJP.
But yeah, you should read that. It's an interesting piece. Local newspapers are writing that BJP's unopposed winner. My question to the panel is that in such case, will there be voting? Do the voters not have option to vote for Nota? [01:24:00] If there's option to vote for Nota, then how the newspapers can declare him winner?
Additionally, if anyone from your team is visiting Ahmedabad or Gandhi Nagar for election coverage, I have a spare bike. So Basant was there, but he's coming back today. And he
Raman: has done a good story from Gandhi Nagar, which you will soon read.
Manisha: Manan also recommends Maamla Legal Hai on Netflix.
Abhinandan: Yeah, I'm hearing good things about this show.
Have you watched it? No. Your honor. No? Okay. So, uh, okay. So thanks, Manan. On the nota bit, I'm just, trivia, you probably already know that, that stand up comic who does impeccable mimicry of Mr. Modi, um,
Manisha: Shyam
Abhinandan: Rangeela, is contesting from Banaras and the reason he's given is, Not because he thinks I can win, he says, because what happened in Gujarat, in two places now, even in Indore, the same thing happened, right?
The, the guy withdrew. Indore,
Manisha: the person just shifted to the BJP.
Abhinandan: BJP. So he says, so that shouldn't happen. So if everybody [01:25:00] abandons the field, at least Shyam Rangila, people should come out and they should have a choice. Even if they don't want to vote for me, they should have a choice.
Manisha: So one thing is the nota.
Never really wins because even if the majority votes are for nota But secondly, I don't think there's a question for nota was a question for election commission If so many reports have come out clearly something's amiss There should have been a fact finding committees being sent here and indore to at least give a note or some facts about how the electoral atmosphere was vitiated or there wasn't level playing field, at least in terms of putting a statement out there, they should have done that.
Raman: In Gandhi Nagar, independent candidates, they are complaining that they have been forced to withdraw because, uh, Amit Shah, who's contesting from there, he won't, uh, people, uh, in his honor, they want to make a record that he wins by 10 lakh votes. So they don't want to divide it. story is something which, uh, our guy, Basant has done it.
He has spoken to these independent [01:26:00] candidates. They have come three or four of them have come on record. So, so that report is also soon going to come out.
Manisha: Especially if you file a nomination from one party after that, if you're moving to your rival party, I think it's a huge cause for
Abhinandan: concern. Aapki fitrat is of a bully.
You want to win by bullying. I don't know whether you've seen that very nice video where someone goes to the supermarket to return cheese. So she returns it and this lady says, okay, thank you. We'll reimburse you. We'll replace it. Yeah She gets very upset. She says. Oh, you want to fight? She says. Yeah, I want to fight Okay, we didn't buy that.
So thank you so much. That felt a lot better. So I think you should generally Bully, you don't want to just win even if you're winning You want to bully and win.
Manisha: Indu says, could you please add timestamps episodes? YouTube shots and timestamps make it easier to introduce non subscribers to NL. Um, and 1. 5 hour video is too long to get people to listen.
Says, thanks for all the good work. Stay hydrated.
Abhinandan: Uh, yeah, we should do that. We did an awful and awesome. Let's put [01:27:00] timestamps on this also. What we were discussing when. So people
Manisha: can just skip if they want. Yeah. Abhijit Anand says, hello Hafta team. I'm assuming the PM's hate mongering speech on Muslims and Congress would make to the discussion this week.
It did and we said so much on it. So as disturbing as it was, I also found it very intriguing. It's not really his style. It's a bit too direct. It almost feels like desperate last minute move. But this is a party sure of a renewed mandate, as Anand said last time, isn't it? What's missing? Do they send some unease?
So I think we've already spoken about it.
Anand: I said that, uh, it's manifesto reflects that it's a party reassured of a renewed mandate. So
Manisha: I hope you got your answers Abhijeet, we had a long discussion on this. Rana Ayyub, I don't know if it's a journalist, Rana Ayyub.
Abhinandan: Journalist Rana Ayyub. Rana, if it's you, just text me so we can clarify which Rana Ayyub it is.
Thanks man.
Manisha: I find it perplexing how some liberals shifted their stance on Modi after two terms of his government criticizing it as divisive and Islamophobic. They knowingly cast their votes for the BJP in 2014, fully aware that [01:28:00] Narendra Modi would become Prime Minister if BJP won. Puzzling aspect is why they supported someone accused of genocide.
Modi's Islamophobia was evident from the beginning exemplified by the Gujarat model. The fact that the BJP remained dominant in elections post 2002 can be attributed to the anti Muslim sentiments fostered among Gujaratis by the BJP. Abhinandan's earlier statement that he would have voted for Modi in 2014 due to UPA's failure is indeed problematic.
I don't think you said you would have voted. So you understand people. No, I think what I said,
Abhinandan: no, no. No? Two things. I did say that if Jan was put to my head that here are the only two options you had because I of course voted up. But either you vote for a third term. to UPA or you give this guy first term.
I did say that I would give this guy first term because I don't think it's a good idea to give anyone a third term like what communists did in Bengal for 33 years. I just don't think it's a good idea. So actually we've discussed this thread bear on several haftas Rana. Uh, on the, not everybody is, has the same motivation or information [01:29:00] when they cast their votes.
We assume because we consume news day in and day out, we are news. Kiki does. Uh, like I said, there's so many people who voted for him, even in 2019, who are not communal and are not even aware of, like I said, they don't know who's Swamit Batra, they don't know who's who, they just know, toh, so I, I, yeah, I think it's, yeah, I, I don't think it's a good idea and what, just to be clear, what I said was, I wouldn't have voted for him generally, if I were given a choice of giving him one term and giving someone else a third term, and at that time, um, Even I did not think he'd go this far and I've, I said that often that, you know, I, I don't think that he had that pan India appeal.
He may be the share of Gujarat, but India would never accept him with that kind of dominance. They did. So I was wrong, but, uh, yeah, even today, if you were to say that remove all other people off, you know, move up, move everybody. And should you go back to the Congress in spite of the fact that I myself personally have Gehraud, [01:30:00] Mr.
Manmohan Singh's house, I would say, yes, I should go back to them because you cannot give someone like this a third term, this kind of a political environment where people like Prasanna, whatever his name is, Prajwal. The people we have in politics are not of the quality where you can give them this kind of power, yeah.
They are, uh, yeah.
Manisha: Aras says, in another election show, it was amusing to see Manisha struggle so much with the idea that some people actually like Rahul Gandhi, considering how dismissive she's been of Rahul Gandhi and Bharat Jodo Yatra before it had even begun. It's indeed good for her and the NL team to step out of their vicious North Indian bubble.
As an NL subscriber, it's not important for me that the core team likes opposition leaders, but their disdain for RG suggests a lack of everyday contact with people who think differently, and the idea that there are other ways of doing politics. My overall sense is that a singular vision for how politics should unfold clouds NL's election coverage, including the depiction of India Alliance as a failure.
For example, when Manisha repeatedly suggests that the UDF LDF squabble gives Modi further ammunition, I [01:31:00] wanted to scream, it's not Kerala's responsibility to dumb down its politics for the sake of North Indians. Well, well, well, RS, I'm really going to come in defense of my North Indian brothers and sisters.
But first, I wasn't amused that he's liked, but what I said was that it was quite interesting to see that when people spoke about Rahul, they also spoke about Indira and Rajiv in the same breath. So that adulation for Gandhi family, the pride that, you know, our constituency is going to send another Gandhi who may possibly become the prime minister.
That's not a sentiment that I encounter. So I was very, I mean, only journalists, you know, speak about the 90s when people would say, Aap kisko vote kar rahe hain? On 90s, like Maya Sharma we met of NDTV, she said 90s election people would say Indira Gandhi, that's not something that I have witnessed in my, you know, while election, no one brings up Rajiv or Indira.
So it was very nice and not nice, but it was interesting to see that the Gandhi family still held so much importance for the [01:32:00] voters then I think because Kerala being so far the route to Delhi or the, uh, or their trust in Congress and the Gandhi's come from the fact that they trust them to represent Kerala.
So I think there's Congress is that bridge which remains, uh, and I don't think, I mean, North Indian politics being dumb is just a wild generalization. Even if your metric for defining dumb is, uh, The number of people who vote against BJP, then North India beats southern states when it comes to anti BJP voters.
Statistically, more people in the North are voting against the BJP, but of course there are various permutation combinations due to which they don't land up in power. And, uh, This is a state which, again, there's a very good piece which will also be my recommendation by Roshan Kishore on Indian liberals are having their Hillary Clinton moment, where he debunks this North South, uh, thing, where, you know, he points that UP [01:33:00] has given you, you know, the first Dalit state.
full term chief minister, not Tamil Nadu, Kerala. So this is very easy generalization to say that only in the last seven years have we seen Yogi or only in the last ten years have we seen a rise of BJP. This is Bihar, UP, these states have, you know, have strong
Abhinandan: Social movements have been there as well.
Yeah, social movements
Manisha: and different kind of politics and why BJP is in power is a different analysis. But I don't think just calling it dumb is, you know, it helps anyone. And I'd love to say this to my South Indian friends that You'll have to get off your high horse very soon because the BJP is only going to rise in the south.
There's already chatter of you know, whether they cross the double digit mark or not a percentage in Tamil Nadu. I don't know if that is true, but even if from 3 percent they are hovering around 10%, it's a party on the rise. So, you know, you'll have to at some point leave this analysis that BJP, you know, whatever.
It's the only resistance to BJP is in south. I feel the only resistance will come from the north [01:34:00] after a while because BJP will only rise You In the South. That's where they can gain. Sarath says, like my last letter about non Basmati rice, another opportunity is missed by the opposition. Rahul Gandhi or Mamata or any opposition should just say that even if we do inheritance tax, it will be above net worth of thousand, five thousand, ten thousand crores.
We want to tax mainly Ambani and Adani and Modi is trying to save them. Why are these points not thought out by the opposition at all? Any insight on how they think and work? Kudos to the entire Another Election Show. As part of another election show. Before Andhra and Telangana election, can there be a debate between Prakala Prabhakar, husband of Finance Minister, and Jayaprakash Lok Satta?
Both are intellectuals and talk with data. Prabhakar is openly opposing BJP and JP is supporting TDP, PRP, BJP alliance. Also in the questions asked about state and central elections separately for Andhra. Can the questions be separate? It will be a much watched interview from Telugu States. Hope the NL team does it before some [01:35:00] other news team.
So we have Pooja and Dhanya. Atul and I are not going there because we already have a very solid team from News Minute there. So I'll definitely forward
Abhinandan: your suggestion
Manisha: on to Pooja and Dhanya. Nachiket, hi team, love your work and long time supporter. Trying to get this email under 200 words, so jumping to the material straight away.
Also he's decided not to put space, so that we read this as one word. As one word.
Abhinandan: So basically he's put 25 words as one word.
Manisha: It can be tough to get guests from certain backgrounds or political affiliations as Abhinandan mentioned, but a balanced panel with varied viewpoints is important. Sometimes everyone on the panel seems to agree, which can limit the discussion's depth.
Try to include guests with different perspectives, even if they don't align with the majority view. In the recent Katchathevu discussion, Abhinandan was justifying his viewpoint despite the guests leaning towards the right. While a lively discussion is good, it's okay to end with a perspective that doesn't align with the usual stance.
Your audience can draw its own conclusion without additional justification. As Claire Keegan once [01:36:00] said, Many's the man lost much just because he missed a perfect opportunity to say nothing. Sometimes, letting a point stand on its own without a rebuttal can lead to a more enriching discussion.
Abhinandan: Point taken, Ajay K.
Manisha: Who is Claire Keegan, may I ask? Too dumb to ask. I have no idea who Claire Keegan is. Our subscribers are so smart, they're throwing names like Veenu Parthiban. Sorry, Parthiban. This is a general expression of despair at the current state of the country. As a background, I've been living overseas for the past two 35 years.
This is over half my life. I don't think I'll ever return to India to live there permanently. So by all manner of speaking, I shouldn't care about how India is faring. But since I lived my youth there, and as I still have old friends, extended family there, I worry about the cult of Modi and the social divisions the future generations will inherit.
The poison of social division and hate mongering are everywhere. Minority hatred is [01:37:00] expressed without care. People are fooled by slogans and the opium of religion so that they don't notice the economic, social decline, rising prices, unemployment, erosion, a fourth pillar of democracy and apparent march towards dictatorship.
I want to know how you and others with similar mindset and despair deal with this citation. How do you guys carry on? Well, A, cause it's, just cause when you're living here, it doesn't, it doesn't seem as bad as, Maybe from far away. Yeah. How far is
Abhinandan: far away? Where is, uh, Venu from? I mean,
Manisha: she hasn't, she's been living abroad for 35 years.
Abhinandan: So I mean, yeah, I think a, the, while of course there is an erosion of democratic institutions and institutions in general, I think it's, there is a bit of hyperbole, Oh my God, we are becoming Russia or Myanmar or, or China, it's, it's, we are not there for a variety of reasons. So not that I don't think Mr.
Modi and Mr. Shah would love that. But yeah, that is one reason that the despair isn't so much. Secondly, I mean, there is enough democracy and, you know, [01:38:00] conversation still around to not feel like a despair. And Claire Keegan is an Irish short story writer. Checked it out. So yeah, it's, it's not, not to say that everything is wonderful and our democracy is in great health, but it's not as bad as you think, you know.
Manisha: And there's quite a lot of dissent and yeah. I mean, there are voices who are. Godwin says, hi. All, I have two questions, but let me start by saying that aayega to Modi hi. After two phases of voting, how different is the feeling on the ground compared to 2019 when we hoped for a progressive result, but BJP ended winning more seat.
When the BJP does come to power, but with less seed, do you see them being even more aggressive with their agenda? More raids, full on power grabs, as they might feel a need to lash out to secure power, full on night of long nights.
Abhinandan: Well, I haven't been on the ground, so I will not speculate on which way the wind is blowing as you, I never do.
Manisha: Yeah, and even those of us who go on the ground don't like to get into speculation, but from every [01:39:00] report that we are getting, there's no massive anti incumbency kind of that we're hearing of,
Raman: are we? Even when lesser number of people are voting.
Manisha: But surely like when reporters are saying that there's no Modi wave and all, I think they're also comparing it to 2014 and 2019 which were very You know, euphoric for the BJP, of course.
There's also sameness to it. People get bored also. The
Abhinandan: second point is that will there be, will they double down on their agenda? On that, I will speculate. And I think it's not just, you know, lottery type speculation. I think a compelling case can be made that, yes, that they'll double down on. I don't have a doubt in my mind that Mr.
Modi and Mr. Shah specifically. are Democrats, uh, by temperament. I, I think, uh, they think that the best thing to do is just to bulldoze through everything and, [01:40:00] and, you know, citizens rights is not a thing that I think they understand of value. And I think that's true for Indian politicians across the board, but especially for these two.
Manisha: I feel the crackdown on digital media may be quite strong because There'll be a
Abhinandan: crackdown for sure. I'm not talking about just news organizations. They won't ease up on that. They don't know any other way.
Manisha: Also because in this election, one of the interesting things is that digital narrative does seem to shift a little away.
Like from 2014 when BJP was all over social media, they were the kings. You see them quite on the back foot in this election, just this Instagram reel that they put up, which was very odious, they've taken it down. If you look at the comments under it, they were just trashing BJP for putting up a video like that.
And for a party that's gotten so used to a mainstream media, which is just praising them day in and day out, I think this, is irking them and I think you will see stricter regulation around digital news, what happens on YouTube and stuff like that.
Abhinandan: Also, I think, for example, I think, you know, Mr. Manmohan Singh, there was Dr.
Manmohan Singh, there were wonderful things about him, etc. But [01:41:00] I do think it was problematic, his belief that the cure to everything was market, you know, foreign capital, privatization. There was just, there was this ideological position. I don't think it was possible to convince Mr. Manmohan Singh that No, this is not the answer to my understanding.
His answer to most things was market privatization, foreign capital, USA. Uh, similarly, I don't think Mr. Modi and Mr. Shah understand democratic values. I think the understanding of governance is only and I mean, who talks the way Modi does. I fed him 80 crores and all that. Dude, like one congress guy said, Did you bring money from your uncle?
It's government money. I mean, the way he talks as if he's earned all this money and he's feeding, I mean, dude, you got to be in a different level of delusion to think that this is all my money. He probably does. He probably thinks that he owns this country and whatever [01:42:00] he's
Raman: Top of it, he calls himself Pradhan Sevak.
Abhinandan: Yeah, I mean, I just think there are too many telltale and giveaway signs of the mindset of Mr. Modi and Shah. So anyone who thinks that they will take it easy and, and endorse democratic values, I, I think that's an easily winnable debate.
Anand: Talking about a different thing, even with the low turnout. So, uh, I am just, uh, summarizing a few points about the turnout and how, you know, They have played out with ultimate outcome.
It's, and so this is not very conclusive. First thing rider, not conclusive, but we, we take the elections of 21st century, last three, four elections earlier. The conventional wisdom was that he turnout means a wave or an NT ii. But in their book, RA and uh, do in 2019 verdict, they have studied last three elections and they.
[01:43:00] Uh, took two precautions. First, they took only those states where BJP and Congress are in direct context. And also, uh, Only, uh, ruler seats or semi urban seats to negate the advantage that BJP is considered to have in urban localities. So they said that with lower turnout, BJP has better results and they pinned it down to the, um, a stronger carder of BJP and Congress.
More depends on a spontaneous voters, self motivated voters. So, uh, with a weaker organization, it is not doing well in low turnout elections. That was their conclusion. So the only exception that we can see was after the book came out, that is 2019 elections itself. And that later enlists a when I. I read the analysis of 2019 Lok [01:44:00] Sabha elections.
They said that low turnout in many constituencies helped BJP, but it was supplemented by the fact that there was a lot of spontaneous voting also in its favor, self motivated because of Balakot narrative and other things. So, both combined to give it a record number of seats. So, means, I, what I am saying is that many conclusive derivatives cannot be drawn from turned out figures.
It has, the conventional wisdom has been, uh, upended now, means, it's a new normal you can say.
Manisha: And what do you think of the 2019 14 wave for Modi
Anand: No. Like this
Manisha: whole thing of boring lecture and all that, there is not so much interest in Modi. I'm also wondering if we're comparing, we're calling it boring is because we're comparing it digitally.
Like digitally everything has become so noisy that maybe on ground we feel, Oh, it's so dull. But it's the same maybe, your [01:45:00] take on that.
Anand: Means also, yes, maybe, also the fatigue, fatigue factor is there because of similar thing. But. But you can say, argue against it that always the elections have happened with this gap only five years.
So I
Abhinandan: do think that it is less lively now, whether it is because this whole activism has become online, everything's become online. But yes. But I also think it's a fear factor. The dhadale say that other opposition parties used to go around, you know, doing campaigns or holding rallies. Now people are scared to do that because people are afraid to attend rallies, people are afraid to do rallies, permissions are not given.
It's just become too much of a pachra. So many people are afraid to express their opinion, yaar. Someone who works in my colony, she was saying that, you know, these news people had come and they were conducting those, you know, there's little chats in our colony and I said that what has Modi given us and I did this and I did that.
And my husband later took me inside, uh, [01:46:00] you know, what they call in the, the, it's those bastis and scolded me that shouldn't say anything, just sit inside, don't go out and talk to these cameras. You know, the fear factor of just expressing your opinion, which is also a function of Mr. Modi and Mr. Shah, that has made the campaign and the selection less noisy.
People are just afraid to speak.
Manisha: I think just to add to this fear factor, I don't think it's just BJP. I also feel like there's a lot of fear of virality among people. We've gotten two calls from young students who are praising the BJP to take down their picture or whatever, because you're scared of being a meme.
I think a lot of people are also worried about giving interviews and doing these vox pops because virality just, you know, with that BJP guy who was jailed, who, you know, from Rajasthan, Usman Ghani. Who's a BJP worker. I mean he just becomes viral and then within day he's expelled and the next day he's arrested.
So I think not speaking is also a function of virality, the fear of virality. I think that's, that's really strong among people. Like the Galgotias, [01:47:00] yeah?
Abhinandan: Yeah, so much Galgotia University. So much, they've
Manisha: been memified so much that they're probably Like children,
Abhinandan: parents are wondering that they, I, I wonder if there'll be an impact in this, in this year's enrollment to Gil.
Go to University .
Manisha: Okay. Highly appreciate the work you guys are doing. This is from rb. While I have subscribed for the first time, I think there are many other really good channels who are doing good work there. Even if a user intends to support all, it becomes untenable to do that. If subscription fee too high, a lower subscription will help you get long-term subscriptions from any individual and you will end up reaching more people too.
Plus the audience will have more chances of hearing other channels like yours and support them.
Abhinandan: Okay. Point noted, RB.
Manisha: Jagraj Singh says, it's not new that Modi lies about what RG says by giving it a spin. Panelists passively blame RG for giving these opportunities to Narendra Modi to spin them and how RG did not explain it well and said it in a way that it was easy for BJP to spin a lie out of it.
This form of discussion is extremely frustrating to hear. Draw an analogy with victim blaming culture here. Modi is a liar and mere culture. Mere [01:48:00] calling out his evil intent should be enough. Modi can spin a lie out of anything and does not need an RG to pull lies out of thin air. Modi is a pathetic orator, patronizes his audience by making catchy and controversial statements.
If the panelists believe that RG did not explain his intent well, the only thing that can be beneficial is to fill in the blanks and clarify how Modi spun it.
Abhinandan: No, I agree with you, Jagraj. I think this whole that, you know, Rahul or the opposition is not, in fact, Manisha and I have had a debate about this here.
I think it's, it's just, uh, it's, I, I don't think it's really analysis that is, if you give this kind of media control to anyone, like I was telling this one journalist who is with NDTV, by the way, um, and who I've known from a long time, who's been with NDTV for 20, 25 years, was again saying the same thing, you know, at a dinner.
So I said, you know, I heard it for a while. I said, I said, dude, you know, you give, uh, you give [01:49:00] me the control of your channel and all the channels that I will convince this country that it is very healthy to eat garbage from the street. So I just, I, I completely, I completely agree with you. I think this whole thing of there is enough material on Modi to make him a bigger meme than RGS.
It says that the media, if you do your channel is taken down online or this thing. It is. So, yeah, I, I don't think it's the difference is that big. Of course. I don't agree with you that Mo's not a good writer. I think he's a fantastic writer, but I don't think he's some, you know, he, he's not like a Shakespeare, while Raul Gandhi is a master, I think it's marginal.
The difference.
Anand: What is, I mean, oratory, he's a good summarizer. If what I think about his oratory means if you give him 30 minutes and he have to, he has to cover a hundred ones. He will cover. That is one thing about political oratory, the synoptic view of things, that is with him. I [01:50:00] don't like his oratory, but his synoptic sense is spot on.
Abhinandan: I think the best orator politically, full disclosure, my past association with him, is Arvind. I have seen Arvind, Convince a basti from this to that. He's an amazing, he can really break down things and explain them in a way. And which was his whole thing, which I mean, it's within 10 years to go from nothing to the chief minister of Delhi is not a joke and it happened by.
Addressing and I was with him in many of the rallies, whether it was a gathering of 10 people or 200 people or 2000 people, he would go and speak and speak and speak and he convinced the whole of Delhi like that. If you go by that and you give someone like Arvind control of the media, he'll convince his country that never did a virus again.
So it's complete media game. One
Anand: thing also the media control thing, maybe we focus more on the conventional media and that's where we can. But I think public sphere is very different now with the digital thing and pe so many mobile [01:51:00] phones in Yeah. Hands of millions of people. Mm. So media control is just one variant.
Yeah. But the digital, uh, space has also been taken away by like, it, it is not that Mr. Moody is not mimed here is, there are a lot of memes. There are a lot of, uh, things there. A lot. A a, a lot of things are there. So that is also one.
Abhinandan: No, no, absolutely. It's there, but I think it's a thing like, you know, Singapore is also corrupt, but that doesn't mean.
No, but I think it's an interesting exploration. Forget everything else. How many people do you know who have said, Oh, I feel scared of criticizing Arvind online? Just criticizing Arvind or Rahul online. How many people do you know? Who say I feel afraid of saying anything about Mohi. I know at least 50 from my doctor to, to people here.
It is, it is. Of course there is, there are memes about him. But to even [01:52:00] post that, I mean, let alone that, I mean, I don't wanna take names, but colleagues who worked with us, you know, have often said, can we, you know, delete this tweet. Can, I don't want to say this, I want to, you know, who worked with us in the past?
It's you give that kind of control to someone. It is a no contest. I don't think
Anand: Maybe not really. India is such a big country. So the scale of critique is also so on a Say quantum that if you are against it, you have enough material Also, uh, just on a lighter note, I think getting to television channels is very difficult.
Now you have this, you have this, uh, DTH remote, then you go to Nge News, then you this, then the,
Abhinandan: I'll say that habitual watches of news. If you're Tata Sky, 601 NDTV, 604 [01:53:00] Times. But
Manisha: those are very
Abhinandan: few, habitual watches. Uh, 631 CNN, 633 BBC, 463 Okay, stop
Manisha: boasting what 470
Abhinandan: Champions League, that's it. These are the channels I
Anand: know. Like, earlier, in simpler times, we knew that, okay, news is coming from here. I mean, I, I, so, I, watch this on television, not Uh, long ago.
So I tried to watch TV news. It was such so much hard work to get to a channel. I mean, the
Abhinandan: viewership has come down dramatically.
Manisha: Okay. Aranya Bhattacharya says, Dear team, heartfelt thanks on your unbiased reporting and efforts. I've noticed hearing many of the podcasts and reports from outside Bengal.
Even the unbiased media outlets tend to think Mamata Manoji is one of the biggest names against Modi. But how she visits Delhi almost every time Abhishek is summoned by ED or CBI seems she's some sort of understanding with Modi and BJP. One of the reasons why she's still out of jail unlike the genuine [01:54:00] opposition like Kejriwal or Soren.
This is one of the reasons, she says. I think more on this should be explored. While she claims to be part of India Alliance, her allegiance has always remained very much in question. Not to mention the nice exchange program between TMC and BJP in Bengal, multiple times for a single politician. I think for getting a sense of what is happening inside Bengal, someone from a different party should be interviewed when you do the election episodes in Bengal.
So we have, uh, Yeah,
Abhinandan: but I mean, but though I do think, um, you know, uh, Rania, this is a, it's slightly conspiracy theory. I don't think there'll be an arrangement. Maybe Mamta's careful because she doesn't want to jail. But like, just like I think, um, the young Akhilesh Yadav. Doesn't cross a certain line in criticism because he doesn't want to go to jail, but that doesn't mean there's an arrangement.
Manisha: Also, optics of putting a woman leader who fought the left to jail is different. And more
Abhinandan: importantly, Aranya, I'll do that under suggestions, it's not unbiased. There's a bias everywhere, there's a bias here, there's a bias in our reporting. It is [01:55:00] journalistic, it is factual, and it, it, it, it, um, is above certain journalistic standards.
But bias is, unbiased is too, too big a term to use for any reporting, including ours.
Anand: And the Congress unit of West Bengal has not gelled well with TMC. That's also there. Correct. They're not fighting today. No, no, no. Adhiran, what, what is his name? Adhiran, yesterday he said. Yesterday he said that if you have to vote for.
Vote for the
Abhinandan: BJP, not the TMC. Yeah,
Anand: exactly. If you are going to vote for TMC, don't vote for BJP. Correct.
Manisha: I mean the same way the left says the whole fight between left and congress there was a congress's B team. So these are the contradictions of an alliance also whose singular glue is basically anti Modi.
Naveen CR. Hi, hope you will read my letter on Hafta. I've been following NL for past five years and I'm a huge fan of your reporting. I see the news [01:56:00] laundry growing and doing ground reports and appreciate much of your coverage. Congratulations on Ram Nath Goenka. I'm a student when I started listening to NL and your constant supporter.
Ah. Emphasis on if your student don't buy, it's okay. Made me buy the annual membership immediately after I got a job.
-: Yay. So
Abhinandan: Naveen, see Naveen is the example of the Adarsh Balak, model citizen.
Manisha: You should make our own Adarsh Balak.
Abhinandan: As soon as he got a job, he subscribed to News Laundry. So remember students, we give free subscriptions to students.
But when you get a job, do pay for it. It's a lot less than you'll pay for your weekend entertainment.
Manisha: Norman Khan says, Dear News Laundry team, I hope this letter finds you in the midst of a spirited debate over yet another perplexing news item. This week's highlight, the uproar over four students who, in a bold display of religiosity or perhaps just sheer desperation, wrote Jayshree Ram on their exam paper and were rewarded with a [01:57:00] pass mark in 50 percent.
Now let's not get bogged down by the nitty gritty of academic integrity or the subtle nuances of separation of religion and education. Instead, let's marvel at the creative genius of these young scholars. In a world where plagiarism, cheating scandals dominate the academic landscape, these students dared to dream differently.
They didn't resort to the worn out tactic of crib sheets or clandestine whispers. No, they boldly proclaimed their devotion to a divine power in hopes of a divine intervention in their grades. Like, share and subscribe! Those Ateeq Ahmed's killers, right after shooting this scream, Shree Ram. Jai Shree Ram, Jai Shree Ram.
Safe. But alas, dear News Laundry, it seems our educational institutions are not ready to embrace such unorthodox approaches to exam taking. Instead of celebrating the ingenuity of these students, they've been met with skepticism and controversy. Shouldn't we as a society applaud such innovation?
Shouldn't we reward those who think outside the box, even if that box happens to be an exam paper? Let's propose a toast to these four trail [01:58:00] blazers. May their Jai Shri Ram battle cry echo through the hallowed halls of academia. Now he's just being Sarcastic. We get it. He's been sarcastic throughout the letter.
Abhinandan: But
Manisha: it just goes.
Abhinandan: But, but to come to Norman Khan, we have three letters left, which we'll read next week because we don't want to cross too much time. But, uh, I, I mean, I, I will say this, uh, Norman, it is not, what is new is that they got 50%. I remember when I was in school, um, a friend of mine who was so bad at math and which is why I think math should be optional from class eight or nine.
It can really hit your self confidence. And he was really smart at other things. He just didn't understand math. He didn't even attempt the paper. He just wrote the whole Jai Hanuman Doodh Yeah, he wrote the whole and he got zero. The difference is he got zero then. So people have been doing this for the longest time.
No one, you may not know it because maybe you have very bright friends. I had a lot of duffers as friends. Many used to start off with Om thinking that'll pass them. This [01:59:00] friend of mine in math, he wrote the full Hanuman Chalisa. But they did not pass. The difference today is students are still doing the same things that they did.
This time they write Jai Shri Ram instead of, because I think it's also easier to read through the whole Hanuman Chalisa. And then put a pen down.
Anand: No, see, examination paper, examiners have a lot of, say, colorful stories to tell. People write filmy songs, uh, and some people also stick currency notes and that, yes, yes, they do.
In board examinations, many do. Or what you did when
Abhinandan: you put a chakku and took the
Anand: exam. With a note that. Uh, sometimes, uh, uh, Grace, she completely ignored that and
Abhinandan: told the examiner, You didn't say it like that? I heard.
Anand: No, but when I was, uh, taking my class [02:00:00] 12 examination, not in my room, but in the adjacent room.
Did this happened? No. Uh, so when the time was getting over some, uh, the examiner snatched away, the answer is script. So , that student had a revolver with him. . Yeah, . So, and, and because of that, a lot of commotion was there. So we thought that even our exam would be canceled,
Abhinandan: but it wasn't at first. Hmm. So thank you to the panelists.
Let's get the recommendations out of the way. We have two emails left, Aditya's. We will come to it next week. Kumar is yours, 251 words. The limit is 200, but anyway, that's fine. Um, so let's start with you, Manisha, your recommendation for the week.
Manisha: So, um, the first piece that I recommended earlier by Roshan Kishore in Hindustan Times on the North South divide.
I think it's very interesting. Read that. Uh, a very good profile in New York Times by Saman Subramanian. Time is running out for Rahul Gandhi's vision of India. I think it's very astutely observed. [02:01:00] He's basically followed Gandhi through UP and penned down, um, his observations and he's also spoken to people.
So I think it's a very good profile done and it's succinct. The Economist's piece on Man Ki Baat, I thought was also really good. Uh, how Modi's positioning himself on Man Ki Baat. So these three are my recommendations.
Anand: Okay, so today we talked about politics and elections. So, my recommendation is about more serious things in life, that is death.
Surprise. So, Venky Ramakrishnan, who won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 2009, he has written a book, Why We Die. So he has generally addressed this techno fantasies of immortality and living forever. And with the current science that is available and with his [02:02:00] overlapping interest in chemistry and biology, life sciences, uh, he won the Nobel in chemistry in 2009.
So, uh, he has said that this is Uh, ill founded that there would be immortality and this so from scientific point of view, He has challenged it and also challenged not explored it and how thought that it is not a valid idea also from the social point of view and uh, just Of the it is this is not part of his book.
I am still in the initial part But I think that if immortality would be there so Even if it is some, say, 500, 600, though he says it would not be possible because of number of scientific reasons. So, but what would shield you against accidents and murders, accidents and murders, and then murder would be a big thing.
Means I think people would be then more killing people from [02:03:00] their families. Like now everyone would be alive. So how, how, how you see, so if you are living 700 years, 800 years, you would be tempted to kill more people. So anyway, that was my thought. That was not part of his books. My second, his book, which makes me a little worried, but anyway, we shall hope it is just a fleeting fantasy.
Yeah. Tempted
Manisha: to murder, he says.
Anand: Yes, means if you imagine the scenario, nobody's dying, then murder would be really a big thing. So, uh, second is, um, um, last week, uh, uh, the psychoanalyst, uh, uh, Sudhir Kakkar passed away. He was generally regarded as India's last century, one of the most original thinkers and he did a lot of groundbreaking work in India's psychology, means in [02:04:00] psyche, exploring India's psyche.
Two of his books, one is inner world and second is intimate relations. Also in the Sunday magazine of last week's the Hindu, David, David, the leading publisher who now heads LF book has written a tribute. Uh, that is also, it's called some, anyway, it's a, uh, it's a kind of his personal obituary of Mr. Kaka.
So that is also a good read.
Abhinandan: Thank you, Raman sir.
Raman: Indian Council of Agricultural Research had come out with a book, uh, you know, listing out 75, 000 farmers, uh, who had a huge success story. Their salary had doubled, uh, you know, in five years time or so. So and which has been played up, uh, you know, in the, uh, in 2024 elections.
So we had done one big, uh, video story, which I had recommended in the [02:05:00] past, but we have gone beyond it now. And we have gone to other states and on a very random basis, we have picked up, you know, the farmers from the list and we have gone to their houses. So the first, uh, text story behind the paywall is going to hit, uh, this week, uh, which is from Maharashtra.
So we are going to get, uh, something to, we are working on BR. As well, and Karnataka. So this is a very important story. Uh, because, uh, we have seen things in black and white. Uh, the list is given by the government. The claims are of the government. And we have just spoken to those.
Abhinandan: Audit. We've done an audit on ground audit.
Raman: So, so that is one story. And second is, uh, I think just, uh, food for thought. Uh, since we have spoken about gems of, uh, you know, the Prime Minister, [02:06:00] the kind of statements he has made, and one popular statement that he made that Jin k Bache, without referring that, uh, I mean of course he was obliquely referring to, uh, Muslims.
Soge has come out, uh, you know, with. His, uh, count that he has got five children. Yeah. And he's a Hindu, so why don't, uh, we, the, our readers also look at, you know, the politicians' children, especially the ones who are contesting on BJP ticket. Right. And, uh, I think it'll be a very interesting thing to watch.
See? So the politicians just a food for thought.
Abhinandan: Actually, speaking of this whole children thing, if. You know, the media was not as compromised. Modi's statement of jinke zyada bachche hain, they'd be running primetime debates ki Modi hain hai. Wo kaunsa only child hai? He also has what, six, seven brothers and sisters?
He's the
Manisha: third of six siblings. Yeah,
Abhinandan: so I mean, [02:07:00] so my recommendations are two. One is, you know, why I love this podcast, you know, Radio Open Source with Christopher Lydon. It's because many people they speak about, I've never heard of them. The first time I hear of them is when I hear this podcast, but there is something so enriching about hearing two smart people discussing another smart person.
You immediately feel your IQ rising. So this one is Christopher Lattin's conversation with a professor called Lindsay Stonebridge, and they're talking about Hannah Arendt. I didn't know who that was.
Anand: Hannah Arendt?
Manisha: You don't
Abhinandan: know? Was it
Anand: Beneliti
Abhinandan: O'Reilly? Yeah, correct. Most famous. You, you use that so, so I realize that that's her.
So I have not read anything about her, but it was fantastic. And I also want to reiterate a similar podcast of Christopher Lennon when they talk about Man, Thomas Mann, man, sorry, not man. He's not from Punjab. He's brother of
Anand: Gurdaspur, [02:08:00] Thomas Mann from
Manisha: Germany. So,
Abhinandan: uh, so these are the two I want to recommend is I'm going to be reviewing it.
On the Awful and Awesome this week, I've watched half of the first episode of Heera Mandi.
Manisha: It's terrible!
Abhinandan: And I really want to, I want to push myself, I want to push myself and see how long I can watch it for.
Manisha: It is so bad! They have fucking made
Abhinandan: eight episodes, never has so much money been spent on such shit.
It is, I highly recommend you try to watch it and write in to us and tell me how many episodes you could get by. Sir, even the first episode, I had to watch it. I
Manisha: couldn't watch the first episode. Just five minutes. Everyone is,
Abhinandan: everyone talks. No one is normal. Everyone is overacting. What are you doing, Maharani?
Who talks like this? But every detail, mehendi like this, [02:09:00] everyone's talking like this.
Manisha: I've always maintained Sanjay Leela
Abhinandan: Bhansali is such a crap filmmaker. He is a good ad filmmaker. He should tell his stories. So Gangubai wasn't
Manisha: bad. It was good.
Abhinandan: I haven't seen it, but I, I do. He's just good at making phenomenal frames, which is a great skill for ad filmmaking.
Oh my God. Like I was, I was watching it and my jaw was dropping. I was like, seriously, in 2024. That's what we're writing and making. Aap badi woho. Ab yaar ye 40s, 50s mein chala gaya tha line. Matlab 2024 mein aap rahe ho. So please watch this shit. Because just like when you listen to Christopher Lydon's conversations about smart people and your IQ goes up.
When you watch this, you come back to normal.
Manisha: Reminds me of my, another recommendation I want to add is a phenomenal movie that I saw, Civil War. Which I loved. It's a Juno. No, it's not Marvel. It's a journal movie with a twist and it's a dystopian future where America has broken into a civil war and there are these war [02:10:00] photographers covering America.
It is phenomenal. I loved it. You watch it in a theater.
Abhinandan: Okay.
Manisha: It's really nice.
Abhinandan: Uh, on that note, uh, thank you to our panel. to our panelists. Thank you to our producer, Aryan. Thank you to our sound recordist, Anil. And thank you to those subscribers who have subscribed. And thank you to those who will avail of the one plus one offer for the Press Freedom Week.
Please do support us. Let's get more and more reporters. Let's make this the model for journalism because all other models are going to collapse. Let's just hasten that process. Have a fantastic weekend. Bye bye. Is it in the
Manisha: process of collapse? Or? I should end also on it now of changing the
Abhinandan: model, basically
So
Manisha: have a good weekend. Yep.
-: I met a liar who has [02:11:00] a grudge against my loyalty I met a liar who has a grudge against my loyalty And when you get angry, I swear on you
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