This week, Newslaundry’s Abhinandan Sekhri, Raman Kirpal, and Manisha Pandey are joined by music producer and public health consultant Dr Aiswarya Rao.
On the controversy around TM Krishna being conferred the Sangita Kalanidhi award by the Madras Music Academy and the Carnatic music fraternity’s response, Rao says it is an “intra-Brahmin musician dispute”. One faction wants to “take Carnatic music to the masses”, while the other wants to maintain its “hegemony”.
On Delhi chief minister Arvind Kejriwal’s arrest, Manisha says the PMLA Act is “scary”. “You cannot get bail in PMLA till the court is satisfied that there is prima facie no case.”
This and a lot more. Tune in!
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Song: Kurai Ondrum Illai
Timecodes
00:05:40 - Headlines
00:12:20 - TM Krishna’s Sangita Kalanidhi award controversy
00:31:32 - Arvind Kejriwal arrest
00:59:57 - Letters
01:16:13 - Recommendations
References
India Summons US Diplomat Over Comments On Arvind Kejriwal's Arrest
Recommendations
Dr Aiswarya Rao
Manisha
Raj Kamal Jha at Ramnath Goenka Awards
The Golden Years: The Many Joys of Living a Good Long Life
Raman
The dream chasers who got inducted into a war
Limited edition baseball cap gives investigators key leads in Bengaluru Rameshwaram Cafe blast
Abhinandan
The Global Story: Curse of the world's fastest growing economy
Check out our previous Hafta recommendations.
Produced and recorded by Aryan Mahtta, edited by Hassan Bilal.
Hafta 478
Manisha: [00:00:00] This is a News Laundry podcast, and you're
listening to n
Abhinandan: Welcome to Hafta when we are recording on a we day at
four 30 in the afternoon. Uh, and this is because tomorrow is a very busy
day for a variety of reasons. Most importantly, because our exec, uh, our
managing editor, Manisha, is back from a holiday. Hello. Please notice
as, uh, who was it? Sharad Yadav or Mulayam Singh who had said
Parkati?
What was that? Remember that whole thing? Who? I forget. Mulayam
Singh, Mulayam Singh. No, no. I think it was Sharad Yadav. Sharad
Yadav. Was it Parkati Mela? Yeah, Parkati Mela. He had said, basically,
he had a problem with women who have haircuts. So, here's what I
gathered. But, uh, so she's back and, uh, but it has been, uh, Manisha, a
very hectic week of news.
I [00:01:00] don't know whether you've been following news or during
holidays, do you disconnect?
Manisha: Well, yeah, I really wanted to disconnect, but then there's so
much Too tempting. Yeah, it was just the arrest, especially Kejriwal's
arrest, I think was, it was hard to not read on it and follow what was
happening.
Abhinandan: So Manisha is back also in the studio.
I am your editor in chief, Aman Kripal. Welcome, Aman sir. And joining
us on, uh, the Zoom connection is Dr. Aishwarya Rao. Welcome, Dr.
Rao. Hi. So, uh, you're a public health consultant and pediatrician. Uh,
you have also been a Carnatic, Carnatic. I don't know how you
pronounce this because many people say Carnatic, but I'm thinking
they're giving an accent.
Carnatic. I say Carnatic because that sounds very Indian, but I don't
know. Carnatic. It sounds like Punjabi. It
Manisha: sounds very Punjabi, so. Carnatic. Carnatic Cafe. She's doing
well there. You know, Karnataka. Karnataka.
Abhinandan: Uh, so she's a producer in multiple albums that she's
produced, and she's also the founder of the not for profit Better World
Shelter for Women.
with disabilities. So, uh, thank you for coming and thank you for all the
work you [00:02:00] do. It's my pleasure to be on your show. Great. Uh,
now we will get into the headlines and then discuss something that has,
you know, it just started off with what I thought was a small
disagreement. It's exploded into, you know, really big mainstream news,
which is SM um, you know, award that he was given.
And, We will get a little more understanding of it because, yeah, my
understanding on this is limited. So Dr. Rao can tell us a little more
about that and what is the significance, et cetera. Uh, but I'll start off with
the appeal that our election fund, which the News Minute and News
Laundry will jointly be covering, two of the projects have been topped up.
So thank you so much for that. Really appreciate it. Cause the second
project got topped up last weekend. I'm hoping that at least two more
can get topped up this weekend. And if you go to the News Laundry, uh,
app, or if you go to the News Laundry website, You will see there is a
button called election fund and in that there are three budgets given four
budgets given one is another election show [00:03:00] where Manisha
And Dhanya will be traveling and giving you on ground reports and you
know, the buzz of what's happening with local journalists.
That's a very popular show because usually it's just journalists sitting in
Delhi telling us what's happening. They go to the city and get local
journalists to tell us. Then there's one project called Gendered Polls,
which is 47 crore women are eligible to vote in this general election and
they'll possibly outnumber their male counterparts in elections to come.
Modi's return hinges on that vote. So we'll be doing several reports and
analysis on that. Then ground reports from battleground states, which is
Bihar, Bengal, Maharashtra. Uh, and Karnataka and poll watchdogs,
which is big ads. You know what the media's role has been in this. So
I'm hoping you guys top it up while I'm recording this.
It is the media watchdog, which is most close to being topped up. And
the one that's furthest is the one on battleground states. So please do
[00:04:00] contribute because we don't take any ads. And there's one
thing that the electoral bond story has taught us, which. Raman sir's
team, Supriya's team at Scroll and Dhanya's team at Newsminute did
such a fantastic job on.
There could not be a clearer quid pro quo. Big corporations are taking
loans from banks, you know, defaulting on their loans and giving money
to political parties. It is bizarre the kind of stuff that's happening.
Someone is getting a contract for infrastructure, you know, project for
2000 crores and giving a couple of hundred crores to the ruling party.
It is just bizarre. And this is an environment where even news is being
funded by these very corporations. So unless you fund news. You know,
there's no point in claiming that we are this democracy with very robust
institutions because news is one of the most important aspects of a
democracy and that is completely hijacked by government ads and
those who are giving money to the governments and to news, then
what's left?[00:05:00]
Manisha: And the nuisance team tells me that there has been no debate
on this. Most of the prominent prime time anchors have not done shows
on electoral
Abhinandan: bonds. They are debating. We did two stories on that.
They are debating a tweet about Kangana Ranaut. Yes. Yeah. Imagine
that, that, that has taken in one night, six primetime debates, but the
obvious quid pro quo that is shown in these bonds, no one
Manisha: discussions that they say did happen was on DMK.
How much money DMT? So that was one.
Abhinandan: So do contribute. Uh, so thank you so much. Hafta
continues to be free for a couple of weeks. I'm not sure whether it's
going to be free this week also. Uh, so do contribute, uh, with that,
Manisha will give us the headlines and then she'll continue with the
discussion with Dr.
Rao.
Manisha: Aam Aadmi Party Chief and Delhi Chief Minister Arvind
Kejriwal was arrested by the Enforcement Directorate in connection to
the Delhi excise policy case. Following his arrest, Delhi Minister Atishi
said Kejriwal will continue to remain the Chief Minister. There's been
some kind of controversy around that.[00:06:00]
whether he should continue or not. His wife, meanwhile, has given two
press conferences.
Raman: They are legally weighing it, whether he can be or he cannot
be. But in the meanwhile, uh, you know, he's given two instructions from
the jail.
Manisha: But now we have two chief ministers in jail, Hemanth Soren
and Arvind Kejriwal.
The Election Commission on, of India on Thursday published the
complete electoral bond data given to it by the State Bank of India on
orders of the Supreme Court. This included bond numbers that helped
donors to be matched with the political parties they donated to. BRS was
taken to Tihar Jail after a Delhi court on Tuesday sent her to judicial
custody till April 9th in connection with the Delhi excise policy linked
money laundering case.
In fact, in the electoral bond stories, I uh, read one story that we did that
one of the approvers had also donated to the BJP Ah, yes. In the Delhi
excise policy case. Yes. Climate activist. So Chu has ended his fast in
lay after 21 days, the protest was [00:07:00] aimed at demanding
inclusion of Ladda in the sixth studio of the Constitution and stated for
the region.
The fast though, has not ended. It is the first phase of the fast. And now
women, uh, will protest and for 10 days taking turns fast. For 10 days.
Yeah, for 10 days. Yeah. Karna Singer, TM Krishna. is being conferred
with the prestigious Sangeeta Kala Nidhi title by the Madras Music
Academy at its 2024 conference.
This sparked a sort of a controversy. Two musicians, Rajini and Gayatri,
have resolved to boycott the conference in protest, uh, of Krishna, who's
a vocal critic of Sangh Parivar. In their letter, they wrote that, you know,
how he's demeaned our tradition. He's said anti Brahmin stuff. He's
eulogized Periyar and stuff like that.
And the academy also shot back a letter saying that we stand by our
resolve to So we can have a longer discussion on this. Now, lots of 2024
election related stories. The BJP released its fifth list of candidates for
the upcoming Lok Sabha election. Justice Abhijit Gangopadhyay, who
resigned from the Calcutta High Court and joined the BJP, has been
quickly given a party ticket [00:08:00] from Tamluk constituency in West
Bengal.
Kangana Ranaut's long audition to become the member of parliament,
finally, born. Finally, she's got the role of her lifetime. She's going to be
contesting from Mandi. In
Abhinandan: fact, um, it's interesting the graphic that Akash Banerjee
Deshbhakt put out of her last 10 films and the box office collections.
They've all tanked.
Now, clearly election is a good, uh, politics
Manisha: is a good option. And there's been a lot of controversy around
that also because, uh, Supriya Srinath of Congress and Mrinal Pandey,
who's a senior journalist, made some comments about her and Mandi.
Which were pretty unsavory to my mind, but that became quite a bit of
news.
Abhinandan: We must clarify that she claims that it was not the,
because it wasn't her. It was the official Congress handle.
Manisha: It was her official handle, but she says that her team members
and some heads of role within her team and they delete, she deleted it.
So Naveen Jindal is going to be contesting from [00:09:00] Kurukshetra.
He's joined the BJP. That was quick, very difficult times for Sudhir
Choudhury. Kerala BJP President K. Surendran will be the party
candidate against Rahul Gandhi in Wayanad constituency. Meanwhile,
Menaka Gandhi will continue to contest elections from Sultanpur. Her
son Varun Gandhi has been dropped from Pillivit.
The Congress has also announced more candidates. Uh, they fielded
UP Congress President Ajay Rai from Varanasi to contest against Prime
Minister Narendra Modi. Rajya Sabha MP Digvijay Singh has been
fielded from Rajgad and former BSP leader Danish Ali from Amroha.
The Karnataka government on Saturday moved the Supreme Court
alleging that the centre had not extended financial assistance to the
state for drought management.
And there's a lot of centre versus state headlines. After this, we've had
the Kerala government moving the Supreme Court against President
Murmu for withholding assent to state bills. And in Tamil Nadu, Governor
Arun Ravi finally had to listen to the Supreme Court and administer oath
to K. Ponmudi as State Minister.
This was a day after Chief Justice of India, Justice [00:10:00]
Chandrachur slammed him for defying the
Abhinandan: Supreme Court. He was given 24 hours. Yeah. Otherwise
he said he'll be forced to put contempt. This Ravi is one of the most
bizarre, brazen, yeah, shameless governors. Even by the same
standard. Those standards that governors have set historically.
Manisha: Candidates from left groups on Sunday swept the Jawaharlal
Nehru University Student Union election, with the United Left winning
three posts and Birsa Ambedkar Phule Students Association emerging
victorious on one seat.
Raman: The, the, This woman who won general secretary, she, uh, is,
uh, fighting on, uh, you know, uh, different party.
Uh, I mean, student party and, uh, they, their candidate was dropped the
left parties. Yeah. So left parties, they decided to, you know,
Abhinandan: back her because, and that candidate was dropped at
some like two in the morning or something like that was just a few hours
left for the yes. But the funny thing is that some of our wonderful news
channels were running tickers.
That, you [00:11:00] know, A BVP sweeps, gen U before general
election is this, uh, is, is this what looks like, et cetera, et cetera. They're
won by huge margin. Right. And they didn't even in one seat, you know,
uh, news channels have just gone insane. It's like they'll just run
anything
Raman: see in, in, uh, in, uh, Paul where you have just 3000 votes and
you win by 900 votes.
It's a huge margin. Mm. Yeah. 900 is huge.
Manisha: Yeah. Yeah. A day after the center notified a fact checking
unit under the Press Information Bureau to identify fake news about the
government, the Supreme Court stayed the operation of the notification.
This will be until the Bombay High Court takes a final decision on
petitions challenging the 2023 amendment to the IT rules.
And the
Abhinandan: biggest, the problem with this is that the government will
decide who is telling the truth about their own policies. So technically the
fact checking and because of the history of this whole PIB fact check
and news on his other story. Anything
Manisha: inconvenient is fake, basically. And Kunal Kamra [00:12:00]
was one of the key petitioners in this.
Over 130 people were killed in Moscow on Friday after gunmen opened
fire inside a concert hall with automatic weapons. Terrorist organization,
Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the attack.
Abhinandan: But Putin is saying, no, it's Ukrainians at all. They're
saying, no, we've done it. Ukraine is involved. So that's what the news is
now coming to what's happening in the world of Carnatic music.
Uh, Dr. Rao, could you just tell us, A, what is the controversy about, you
know, the history of this organization, which is conferring the award? Is
it, you know, such a big political issue, uh, in, in the world, in the world
of, uh, Carnatic music, or is it just noise because ingratiate themselves
in front of the right wing government or whatever it
Aiswarya: is?
I think the latter is true. It is not a big deal at all. You know, for a long
time, the, uh, the controversy erupted like 10 days ago [00:13:00] and,
uh, like Manisha just briefed what it was about, you know, but I'll go into
a little bit more detail of initially we, from the fringes, you know, what we
were just watching, it is an intra Brahmin, uh, musician, uh, you know,
uh, rivalry, not rivalry.
It is a, uh, You know, a dispute between two groups within the thing.
One who, uh, are, you know, holding on to the hegemony. Those who
don't want progress. Those who don't want to share Carnatic music with
anyone. You know, who keep it away from the common man. Uh, that's
one group. And the other group, you know, whose leading voice has
been T.
M. Krishna over the years. He wants to take Carnatic music, uh, you
know, to the common masses so that everyone can enjoy. So now
coming to the history of the Music Academy, it was set up, you know, in
1927. It was part of some, uh, big, uh, uh, Congress, uh, [00:14:00]
conference. At the conference, there was some deliberations and
recommendations, and they said, we have to propagate Carnatic music.
So they set it up. It started in halls, but soon it grew into this worldwide,
uh, December festival. And they say, uh, that the December Margazhi,
Margazhi is the Tamil month of December. Margazhi festival is the
largest. Uh, cultural event in the world, you know, people come, you
know, a whole month long people come from all over the world.
And, you know, but it is, uh, I mean, revelatory to this whole issue itself
is that most of the attendees at the festival belong to one particular, uh,
class and caste. So that's how exclusive the, uh, You know, Carnatic
fraternity kept this art form to
Abhinandan: itself. It was a very like the Brahmins, Brahmins own it.
Brahmins listen to it. Brahmins say, wow, that's it. And they teach only
Aiswarya: to Brahmins and they will enjoy it. The rasikas will be
Brahmins. The sabas are run by [00:15:00] the Brahmins and the
exponents are Brahmins. Now, there are outliers. There are some, uh,
very few. Uh, non brahmins that actually, uh, breach this and go inside,
but they are not famous.
They're not big. Actually, most don't, they don't get chances to sing at
these sabahs. So we have something over the past several years. We
are having the alternate to Margazhi, you know, Margazhi and Makkali
Sait, common man's music and Margazhi. So that happens in parks and
in, you know, other sabahs, we have folk arts.
And so there's this other movement going on. So these two worlds never
blend, you know, uh, those people live in their own worlds. Yeah. And
they talk a lot about it and the, uh, you know, news media papers,
everything are owned by that cast and class. So there's a lot more noise
to hear about it. So the whole dichotomy is this for a long time, all of us,
we said, you know, I mean, it doesn't matter to us what Ranjini Gayathri
said to TM Krishna or how the music academy responded to Ranjini
Gayathri.
I mean, it's between them. How does it [00:16:00] even, impact our lives.
How does it even matter? But then, you know, it's just, uh, going on, but
the national media picked up the story. And then it's going on, frankly, to
me, it doesn't make any, uh, it doesn't make any difference. Okay. I'll tell
you one reason. I mean, one reason is because you, you will hear any,
they will say, uh, they say Carnatic music cannot be, one is it's pure,
they appeal to the purity of the Carnatic music.
So only certain, only we are able to. Uh, you know, stick to, uh, transfer
its purity from generation to generation. Another now they say it's
complex. Uh, it's a very complex, uh, system of music. So common man
can't understand, can't enjoy it. So now that is, uh, the, uh, bullshit that
we want to call out, uh, that's, that's the bullshit that TM Krishna has
been calling out all along.[00:17:00]
If something is complex, it can be learned. I mean, it's not like common
man can't
Abhinandan: learn something that is, uh, yeah. Um, actually, uh, I just,
they gave us a series of interviews, this duo, Ranjini Gayatri. And I'm
quoting what they said in one of the interviews. There is
Aiswarya: always distinction in any given society.
That's what we need. Here you call it caste. And I don't think Brahmins
are casteist. We have not tried to take music away
Abhinandan: from any community. There is always distinction in any
given society. Here you call it caste and quote, Brahmins are soft
targets. We are the most accepting and least casteist community
unquote.
So I don't know what they were making their own point.
So, so I, I mean, what is, I mean, their beef, is it, are they, um, you
know, political animals? Is it just something they've jumped into or do
they have a history of? Having political allegiance [00:18:00] or, you
know, canvassing for any party or they, no one knows they've just
suddenly, because I don't know much about them.
They're
Aiswarya: relatively young women, so relatively newer on the scene.
I've heard them on TV. I've, I've, I've watched a lot of their shows on
YouTube. It's beautiful. They sing amazingly, uh, beautiful. I'm, I'm, I'm
actually a fan of Nanjini and Gayathri. But, uh, they've, they were born
and grew up in Bombay. So they are not very well, I would think they're
not very well versed with the politics of Tamil Nadu.
Here Periyar is It is our, uh, you know, it is a big icon here. We call him
the grand old man of Erode and all the progress that Tamil Nadu has
made on several, you know, health indicators, economic indicators,
women's progress, we attribute almost directly to the Periyar
Abhinandan: movement, his
Aiswarya: teachings.
Manisha: You know, he's a big man.
So what do you think would have prompted this letter from the two?
Considering they're not even part of like the Tamil Nadu politics or the
ecosystem. No, but
Aiswarya: they come here. I mean, now [00:19:00] they're part of our,
uh, uh, you know, part of the Margazhi Makkal Essai, uh, part of the
December festival organized by the Music Academy.
And they are very popular now, you know, gaining in popularity. Now, T.
M. Krishna has been going hammer and tongs against this, uh,
Brahminical hegemony. Of the classical, you know, arts, music, and
dance. And he sings in praise of per, per who was very, he didn't mince
his words in his, uh, in
Abhinandan: his criticism of bism.
Yes. He was very aggressive. I mean, I mean, as was anyone, because
I mean, that's how, even that, uh, Kran slogans.
Yeah, the whole thing, you know, that, I mean, you may not agree with
everything, like even this. Now, many people who, you know, Congress
that is going to be doing a protest with, uh, up leaders in, if they are
allowed to, on the 31st of March in Ramlila Maidan, [00:20:00] the
rhetoric from the stage was put everyone in jail, nah?
Yeah. Now everyone is in jail. Rhetoric is one thing. So. Yeah, you have
to understand
Aiswarya: all what Periyar said in context. He spoke during the 20s and
30s. It was a different language of that period. It was much accepted,
you know, a lot of Brahmins were part of the Periyar movement also.
Right, absolutely, sure.
He was not anti Brahmin. He was basically anti superstition. He was
more a rational thinker.
Abhinandan: No, also, Dr. Rao, I mean, I personally think that you have
to see things in context. Even if he was anti Brahmin, In the India he
grew up in, I don't grudge him that, you know, it's like Malcolm X. Yeah,
sure. He was pro civil liberties, but I would say he was anti white.
I mean, some of his, like there was a very marked difference in Malcolm
X's, you know, approach to civil liberties and Martin Luther King. Now I
think Martin Luther King would be more effective, but, but, uh, you know,
it's okay for like, uh, Subhash Chandra Bose [00:21:00] saying we'll go to
war against the British. Bapu wasn't anti British.
He was anti colonialism, but I don't grudge, uh, you know, the, the, the
freedom fighters who wanted a more radical approach. So I don't think
there's even anything wrong with being anti brahmin at a time when
brahminism is you see the numbers here. I mean, when they Swallowed
up all the resources in the country.
Yes. And you're the smallest community. Mm-Hmm. . It is. And
Aiswarya: gatekeeping. No complete gatekeeping education. All
opportunities. All government positions? No music. Music actually, which
evolved from, uh, another, uh, even Kna music and dance. I mean,
classical Ana is not the 40 of the Brahmins. It was part of the hereditary
cortisone, uh, community from, and they were de notified.
They were banned from. You know, uh, because of a lot of social
change, that's another story. Uh, but, uh, you know, it was, uh, taken
over by the Brahmins and, uh, they completely made
Abhinandan: it. In that context, [00:22:00] there was also an old quote
of TM Krishna that was dragged out where he had said MS
Subbalakshmi to get more accepted in the Brahmin tradition of music,
you know, had to distance herself from.
The legacy of where she got the music, which was the courtesan
tradition. Is that something on the along the lines? What was it? He is a
Aiswarya: previously from the courtesan, the formerly Devadasi, uh,
tradition.
Abhinandan: Okay. Yes.
Manisha: Her son wrote in the Hindu, I think. He
Aiswarya: defended TM Krishna's stance. And he said that if Emma
Summer was alive today, she would engage in a, you know, very healthy
discussion
Manisha: on this.
Also, I don't find TM Krishna particularly radical in his utterances. It's, it's
very inclusive. He talks about, you know, like coming up with one song a
day or a month on Allah and Jesus. Including LGBTQI Dalits. But he's
not, he's very opposed to the Sangh Parivar, but I don't think he's as
[00:23:00] radical in his utterances as, say, a Periyar.
He's not
Abhinandan: so No, no, not at all. I think what's happening right now is
that I've seen this It's a question of, you know, the tail wagging the dog,
social media trends determine what it takes up. For example, there are
people on Twitter who today want to see Periyar as a villain because of
his utterance. At that time, and anyone who today praises Periyar for
Manisha: doesn't outrightly say
Abhinandan: that he was bad, racist.
You know, you want to say Periyar was casteist. In fact, so political
parties are kind of trying to push that, that Periyar should be apologetic
for what he said rather than, you know, the entire Brahmin tradition
being feeling guilty. I mean, there has to be a Periyar guilt as opposed to
the Brahmin guilt, you know, it's just, they reversed it.
Now a dozen nutters on Twitter will say this. Those nutters are usually,
you know, people who are, a couple of them are former employees of
some rather large news organizations I have noticed. Yes. Yes. We
know. [00:24:00] Suddenly they, that becomes the, that becomes the
legacy media. Like it's such a completely idiotic narrative or even
something, you know, in any rational discussion, if you go
Aiswarya: to social media, all the idiots
Abhinandan: have found each other.
Yeah. And because idiots it's real. I mean, I think Kunal Kamra is that
one statement, key expletives coming up key big boss. Have you ever
wondered key? Do you understand in the Dr. Yes, I do. Yeah. Okay. So
Have you ever thought that Why do they
Raman: bring assholes
Abhinandan: from every corner of India to Bigg Boss?
Raman: Just
Abhinandan: like Salman Khan looks normal He says, and it's true, he
says stand up comics are afraid of making jokes at Salman Khan
Because Salman Khan, you know, he's basically a goon, a tootcha goon
And Bombay, basically, stand up comedy is Other than a few exceptions
like Varun Grover, uh, Kunal Kamran.
It's a, I mean, it's a very cowardly profession. They will not do [00:25:00]
any political comedy because it may hit them. Yeah. So they would be
scared of cracking Salman jokes.
Then Modi ji came and said, Salman Khan's ass is broken. Why should
we be scared of these people? If he drinks and calls us at night, then
we'll also have a few drinks and wake up. What's the problem? Everyone
is scared
Raman: of Salman Khan. Don't make fun of him. Oh, the girls are calling
me.
Abhinandan: So I think social media is such a nutter kind of that they
find the nutters so that the anchors can look slightly normal. Mm-Hmm,
absolutely .
Aiswarya: So the pushback against ran ga hasn't been, [00:26:00] uh,
very high. Um, in the left liberal spaces here, because we don't want to,
you know, make them, uh, give them more, uh, platform, you know, to,
to come up with this, you know, idiocy.
So it's, it's dying down here. Actually, I would say
Abhinandan: as an issue, it's more or less over. You think it will not spill
into elections and become this
Aiswarya: because I don't think so. Absolutely not. We have far more
important things to worry about. I
Abhinandan: should hope so, but I must say that Ranjani Gayatri. And
Vivek Agnihotri have one thing in common.
They both think that Brahmins have been persecuted in our country.
That is something they have in common. So I really like a lot of, uh,
Aiswarya: yeah. White Brahmin men think, so now it's, uh, you know,
the white Brahmin woman are thinking
Manisha: that now.
Abhinandan: So have you any comments on this before we say, I
Raman: haven't, uh, in fact, I once, uh, two, three years ago, I came
across his [00:27:00] article, TM Krishna, I think either in TOI or in N
express.
I think he had written about Ram and I was very impressed. And then I
referred him for the interview with you. Right. So you interviewed TM you
did. No, it's a few years. Yes. Yes. So,
Abhinandan: so, so I read his article. I think I, did I end up interviewing
him or was it a podcast? I'll just check. I think what
Manisha: Aishwarya is saying about taking classical music to the
masses, you, you really have to be against the arts to see anything
against this project.
I mean, taking it to the masses, including people, you have to have that
so that you make sure the art doesn't die. Yeah. So I, I just cannot see
the opposition to what he's doing here, especially, like I said, 'cause I
really don't find him radical in, in his views. I think it's, he's mostly talking
more inclusion.
That's it. Which, that's it. Which should not be contentious. You and me
in 2023 in the braman circles,
Aiswarya: it's very explosive and uh, uh. Uh, you know, crazy and I'll, I'll
just [00:28:00] wanted to add to this, you know, what is important for me.
I just want to add, see, I'm a Christian and I'm a Dalit. So for me, and
because I produced Carnatic music albums, no, I was completely, but
this is not in Modi's India.
I did this about 10 years back. So there was a lot of criticism. Because
we did a Bharatanatyam dance for one of the songs music video and the
women didn't wear botus for this. Like how can your Bharatanatyam
dances not
Manisha: have botu? What is botu? So there was one.
Aiswarya: What is botu? Binti. Okay. Okay. I see. So there was this
thing.
So basically they want to say Music is ours. No one else should enjoy it.
And if you enjoy it, I mean, they will, uh, cast wild aspersions on you. In
my case, they said conversion, you know, this is just
Abhinandan: one more attempt. So you were trying to convert people
through that?
Manisha: Through Bharatanatyam.[00:29:00]
Abhinandan: It's a bit like the Oxford debate. So before the debate
starts, say, okay, how many of you agree with the proposition? Everyone
puts up their hands. So before the performance, pull up your, how many
of you are Christian? So then after the performance, how many of you
are Christian? Then you see if it's gone up, the numbers gone up or
come down.
But sir, Jayashree did that interview with TM Krishna. But yeah,
interesting to note, but I do hope more important issues dominate prime
time, but this was something that I was very curious about. So I thought
we must get. Someone who understands these things to explain it to us.
But thank you so much for taking the time, Dr.
Rao, and thank you for the work you do. Thank you. Thank
Aiswarya: you. And I, uh, I'm a big fan of news laundry and you people,
uh, your podcast is very, very, uh, you know, thought provoking.
Abhinandan: Thank you. Thank you. Any recommendations you have.
For our audience that they can read, they can watch, they can listen to
that would enrich their lives in any way.
Aiswarya: Yes, I have three recommendations, but they're all one.
Okay. I'm a big sucker for a police drama, crime, thrillers, et cetera. Who
done it? [00:30:00] So, uh, on, on prime, there are three, uh, women
police dramas. Have you all seen happy Valley? Uh, it is a three season
police drama. It is about a woman police officer and she goes about, In
Yorkshire, it's a small sleepy town in, uh, nestled somewhere in the
middle of, uh, the UK where there's crime, there's drugs, et cetera.
So it's a crazy, it's a wickedly funny, it's a beautiful show. It's really nice.
Happy Valley. Is a must see do not miss it. Okay. Wonderful. Um, and
other two more police, uh, women police, uh, drama series on prime as
well. Blue lights. It's set in Ireland and there's deadlock. It's set in
Australia. So three different, uh, women led police dramas.
Awesome. You must not miss
Abhinandan: it. Okay, great. Thank you so much. And thank you for
your time and hope to see you sometime. If you're in Delhi, do come to
our studio. Yes. Thank you. Bye. Have a great day. Thank you.
[00:31:00] On that note, I would like to remind everybody again, do
subscribe to newslaundry. com, contribute, pay to keep news free.
We have a joint News Minute News Laundry subscription. I would hope
you guys would double the utility, double the support and do support
journalists because journalists need more support than opposition
leaders these days. . So, and we don't want journalists also to be going
to the same people buying electoral bonds who are also advertising
something should be left to the public.
So Rama Manisha, so many things have happened. So we let Manisha
decide what we should discuss because Va Gandhi's been dropped and
Ji has got his ticket. But Manka Gandhi has retained MS Ur. Yeah. Um,
Al of course, uh, RA and uh, Mani. Monday, you know, so much is
happening, the ticket distribution, so much is happening, you know, all
over the country.
But in Delhi streets, [00:32:00] I was just, you know, observing that when
they said we'll get out of the prime minister's house, as to the prime
minister's house, these days looks like it's never looked in my lifetime. It
is like, I've, I've stayed quite close to the Prime Minister's house, so I
pass it quite regularly.
I'm always blown away by the amount of, they've increased the security
there. Uh, and they said, we'll get out of the Prime Minister's house. The
police, matlab, they did not let them reach anywhere close. And I was
thinking, there was a time, every third, fourth month, I've had to get out
of PM Manmohan Singh's house.
And kitna hum bichare ko gali dete the. He was right. History will judge
me kindly. Of course. I think at that time he did, he was just saying it, he
was being flattering to himself. He could not have predicted Modil b this
level. I I don't think he could have predicted that mod this to India. But
now when you look back, sure.
I think history will judge him a lot more kindly than the current, than, than
than that environment. So what do you wanna discuss, man? I think the
rest of war.
Manisha: I [00:33:00] think that is the biggest news of the week. And I
don't know how much prominence it's got in television news, but at the
heart of it. This PMLA act, it's very scary what it is able to do in this case,
especially with the tweak.
So if you look at this case, essentially, what is the central allegation
against ARP that, uh, you know, wholesalers were given their profit
margins were increased from 5 percent to 12 percent and the 7 percent
margin was given to big businesses, which then gave kickbacks to ARP.
Classic case of quid pro quo, except in this case, what's astonishing is
that There is no proof.
There's no money trail that connects Arvind Kejriwal to any of these
allegations. Or even Manish. Even, okay, so, okay, at least in Manish
and Vijay Nair's case, the ED claims that his secretary has said that, you
know, he introduced a policy. Vijay Nair was a conduit between the
South group. This is all people saying, you know, approvers, basically
[00:34:00] secretaries, former secretaries saying that, you know, this is
what happened.
Nothing links Arvind Kejriwal to even Manish Sasodhia. No one has said
on record that Arvind, we heard Arvind say this to Manish and then he
introduced the policy or we have a WhatsApp message that Arvind said,
okay, Kavita should be given 1 billion. Basically they can
Abhinandan: arrest anyone or anything. And there's no
Manisha: money trail, like there's not, okay, firstly, anyway, the 7
percent is supposed to have been spent in Goa.
So we don't know what happened, where that money came from.
There's absolutely no money trail. And the scary bit is that this PMLA,
you know, it basically puts the onus on up now to prove itself innocent
and you cannot give bail in PMLA till the court is satisfied that they have
not this prima facie no, uh, case against them.
No court will ever say that which court will ever commit to saying that
there's no trial has been done. So you can basically put anyone in jail
forever. And there's no recourse. And this is very scary. I think, I mean,
[00:35:00] you have to leave aside ARP, whether you like them or not.
What do you think of this liquor policy?
This is very scary for anyone, anyone in this country. There's
Raman: one ARP minister who is already in the jail for the past three
years, I think, Satyendra.
Abhinandan: Satyendra Jain. I mean, they've sent him back and he had
come out from it. He was also, I mean,
Raman: PMLA was slapped on him. And he's inside the jail. He's not
getting bail for that.
Manisha: And in case of Manisha Sodia's bails, not as the courts have
kind of questioned the ED again and again on what proof do you have?
How can you link? Will this stand in court? But they don't give bail. But
they can't commit because no court will ever commit to saying that no
wrongdoing has happened till they have it on proof.
I mean, that goes against basic principles of, you know, No, it's a catch
Abhinandan: 22. No bail hasn't happened. So they cannot commit and
until they commit, they cannot give bail. So it's,
Raman: I don't know how the, how the courts. Should take the PMLA.
I'm in legal position on the PMP MLA. But if you look at the Uh, you
know, entire case government makes policies and these policies may
[00:36:00] go wrong, but they whether they are criminal in nature.
This is first. This is the first time. This is the first step that where you
need to identify whether these, whether, uh, you know, Yeah. What is
the criminal nature of this police policy? I mean, for example, uh, Modi
introduced, uh, what is that? Uh, de demonetization. Demonetization. He
said, uh, black mangi, black money.
Abhinandan: And there was a pi also, which rejected. In fact, that is
something that even the cases that come against us, you know, on it,
this, that often, I tell the lawyers, why can't we go against the
government? At what kind of a case is this here? Mm-Hmm, . What,
what kind of a rule is this that you can question me on stuff?
They said, that's a policy issue. That is the policy of how the income tax
act is this thing and the court will never step in on policy. This is a policy
issue. How can the court step in and decide whether you're guilty or not?
Like now with the electoral bond data out, every policy I can say,
[00:37:00] technically there is no criminality in it, but every rule that has
been changed for anything from, uh, you know, mining, uh, environment
clearances.
To Zu, right? The pharma company den. Every policy of the government
is a roco. They should be in jail. You know? It is bizarre.
Manisha: And so you can arrest any chief minister opposition leader
under PMLA. They go to jail and then they have to resign. There
Raman: is a very clear trend. Anybody who is not in BJP is facing the
legal action, the criminal action and the those who were raided and who
had criminal charges against them and they have joined BJP.
The cases have gone
Manisha: and express investigations and 95 percent were all opposition
leaders.
Abhinandan: There's so many arrests, so many injustices that are
happening in the country. This clearly, I personally think that the Modi
government underestimated the kind of, [00:38:00] uh, you know, appeal
that Arvind Kejriwal still has.
For example, the German diplomatic office issued a statement, they
were summoned by the M. E. A. I was impressed. The U. S. U. S. U. S.
is, you know, Gloria was summoned by them saying that, what, what
was the exact there? Internal matter. This thing was unwarranted as
Persians. Abhay, as Persians, of course, the world will make you, they're
running this like Putin's Russia.
Yeah. I mean, of course you can't say, oh, no one should say anything to
me because, oh, we are so great. We are mother of democracy, but
demonstrate it. You're running it like Putin's Russia. No, that's how
you're running India right now. So the question is the snowball effect.
And I think they had underestimated the snowball effect in the March
31st.
Uddhav is coming to Delhi. Congress is part of it. Unless they turn Delhi
into a fortress, which they're doing now, I just like to point out. How the
media was roughed up by the cops for trying to cover this. And in fact, I
don't know how many of them have written articles on this, but I have
[00:39:00] spoken to reporters who were trying to get to the ARP
headquarter.
They could not get to the ARP headquarter. Some who managed
somehow, it was empty. And I've spoken to three reporters who told me
this. And the police saying, we are not, we have not cordoned off the
ARP headquarter. So, I mean, if you run a country like this, you can't
expect the world to clap and say, Oh, look at these wonderful people
who stand up for liberty.
I mean, it is bizarre, but what is sad is even the fourth pillar of
democracy, media, they are not standing up for their own reporters.
Manisha: Yeah. So the Hindustan photojournalist has fractured his arm.
The guy, the viral picture that's, you know, with the cop holding the neck
is an India Today photojournalist.
Now, I'm very sure if this was West Bengal or if this was, you know. Any
of the Congress states Sudhir would have done a prime time show, yeh
dekho kaise hain. No one has said anything. No one. This guy, you can
see the cop holding his neck is an India Today guy. And, but the big
question I think also is to really, this will be very interesting elections
because 2019 [00:40:00] Lok Sabha, BJP sweeps and gets 56 percent
vote share.
The next year, ARP sweeps state elections and gets 53 percent vote
share. So clearly there's an overlap. We know that, uh, you know, the
Delhi voter likes BJP in center and ARP at state. What are they going to
do this time? And how will, will parties be able to mobilize voters to see
through this very dangerous trend?
Because I do think this has not gone down well with people. I do think
there's a sense among people, you know, don't, this has gone a bit too
far. He's an elected guy. He's highly popular. They've decisively won
state assembly elections to put him in jail like this is, I think also
Abhinandan: as we speak, the election commission has issued a notice
to Supriya Shanate I think to do a balancing act, but this and the national
commission of women have has taken cognizance of Supriya Shanate's
tweet, but on way more horrific stuff.
It is. It is a dis What you've done to every institution and yet you don't
want to be criticized. Right. Dude, really, this government is [00:41:00] in
a different zone of nothingness. But
Manisha: I also feel like Congress, like I feel so angry with Supriya
Srinait or her team, whatever. There's so much you can take on
Kangana with.
Why do you have to tweet something so stupid and lowly, yaar? I mean,
there's so much you can, if you wanted to counter or whatever, make fun
of her final candidature. It's pretty cross
Abhinandan: what they said. Meanwhile, Mahua Moitra has been
summoned yet again, CBI searched her house apparently. The
opposition
Raman: has any, I mean, Modi government has a mounted, you know,
attack on the opposition there.
The bank, I think they, they're going to slap another income tax notice
on, uh, not notice they go. Uh, you know, take, uh, they have only taken
Manisha: out one 30, a 35 Corona from Congress saying the income
tax,
Raman: and they're going to take some more
Manisha: now. But it's really tragic that the media is not, I mean, media,
by we mean the popular, most loudest voices because this is, this is on
the day arrested is
Raman: student level stuff.
No, on the [00:42:00] day Casey was, was arrested, there was. Uh, you
know, coverage, coverage, there was a proper
Abhinandan: coverage,
Manisha: coverage is like, you know, if you are not guilty, what is the
fear, prove it and come out, but the provisions are very scary. No one
can, no one can prove themselves innocent with these provisions,
anyone's is going to rot in jail with these provisions, there's just no
fighting it.
Actually,
Abhinandan: the thing is that although either there should be equal
opportunity, it should not just be the ED that should be allowed to prove.
Try people under PMLA. Give it to any CID police. Then you see every
political leader will be in jail. No, if you, I had said
Raman: it in the past also, if you just look at the investigate,
investigating, you know, agencies in India, CBI always used to take the
Case first, the case used to come to CBI, so after CBI, they will, or it,
they will hand it over.
They will just ad will examine [00:43:00] the, uh, you know, clauses and
everything and see if there is a case of PMLA or money laundering,
money laundering case hack in, I mean, they, they, they used to file a
case after CBI files the charge sheet. But now the trend is. Uh, opposite
because ed, uh, you know, the provisions of this PML and all, they're so
draconian that you cannot get bail.
So the CBI has been relegated into the background and ed has become
the prime investigating agency. And if you look at their, uh, also record,
the success record is not even 1 percent
Abhinandan: right now. Now, some. Crystal ball gazing. I know that is
not what we usually do here, but sometimes we like to. Do you think, or
in your analysis, sitting in the air conditioned studios of News Laundry,
bloody air conditioned,
Manisha: what do you know?
Soon we'll be hitting the road, though, in heatwave, peak heatwave
Abhinandan: in May. You can, Manisha. I shall still be sitting in air
conditioned studios. Uh, but Do you [00:44:00] think this has, it's going to
be, play positively for the BJP or it's gone backfired? It's boomeranged
on them. What do you think, Manisha?
Manisha: I don't think it's played positively at all, but I do think that for an
electoral outcome, you need political mobilization.
So much will depend on how our Congress, India Alliance and other
parties can come together and really make this into an issue, rally
people around it, protest, go out and really kind of milk this. But I don't
think fundamentally. People are okay with it because he's a popularly
elected leader.
Raman: If you, if you make cage reward today, the referendum point, it's
with this issue is going to hit the opposition, uh, Modi government like
hell.
But having said that the opposition parties would not like to see Rahul
Gandhi would not like to see cage reward growing above his stature or
Mamata above her stature. So maybe they will not go to that point.
[00:45:00] So I think. Uh, the impact is not going to be much, uh, political
impact, I mean, especially the coming election.
Uh, I'll be, I will really be surprised if, uh, the opposition is able to one,
when, uh, you know, I mean, up is able to win two, even one or two
seats, one or two seats from Delhi,
Manisha: India, because now they're on Delhi. In Delhi. No, no, India
Alliance. India Alliance, whatever. And in one year, there's the state
elections.
Don't forget, like Delhi Assembly used to vote. So you crippled an
Abhinandan: entire party. But by Assembly, I think what they'll try to
also do is, President's rule or some shit, they'll come up with it. But I
think that I was very surprised, and this is purely anecdotal, the people I
know. I have a few relatives who Modi supporters.
After this arrest, they said, yeah, this is ridiculous. We are not voting for
this guy. This guy is just, he was, cause you know, I was very surprised.
Then I asked, you know, some people around in my colonies, you know,
what do you [00:46:00] think? You know, people are not particularly, you
know, anti Modi. They were, they were saying, yeah, he's good for them.
This has actually put off a lot of his voters because for also like, but it
has, the reverse is not true. It has not. The people are cheering. They
would vote for Modi, whether he did demoralization, whether he told
them to stand and Ali Baja or whatever, they would vote for him. It is that
one in the middle that decides the votes also.
Yeah. Who has said that, dude, this guy will do anything tomorrow. We
are also in shit. So I think that that
Manisha: is the only thing I do feel is that, you know, people, I think a lot
of people recognize these dictatorial tendencies and they recognize
what's happening with opposition Chief ministers. But somehow the, the
cluelessness of Rahul Gandhi is scarier to people than the autocracy of
Modi.
Like in a lot of conversations, people know that he is going to do a
dictatorship. But then the moment you put Rahul in front of them, I think
just having a clueless [00:47:00] person is scarier than having a,
dictatorial person. And this is born out in a Pew research. Hilal Ahmed
has done a very good piece in the print where he says that, uh, most
Indians want representative democracy.
Uh, they're very happy with representation within electoral democracy in
the sense more women, more people from marginalized, but they have a
liking for a strong leader who can get things done. There is that space. I
think we are at that point. point in India where there's an appreciation, I
guess, because we are fed up of chaos and not just in India, the world
over me.
No, I
Abhinandan: think
Raman: so. My
Manisha: experience is that is what is helping Modi, Rahul as a
Raman: face, even in Bollywood movies, if you see animal or for that
matter, any other movie where the, if the hero is strong, stronger, and
even if he's dictator, uh, I mean, uh, he is draconian in his behavior.
Yeah. People like. People like. So I think people see a stronger po
strong [00:48:00] person, uh, in, uh, Modi rather than a dictator.
Dictator.
Abhinandan: He, no,
Manisha: but I think the , which is why I think is a scarier, uh,
proposition for the bjp because people don't, people don't see him as
with the election
Abhinandan: results. You see, I think that is clear that for the BJP they
see KDY as the biggest danger to them, which is why for someone who
was so small, ah, yeah, they came and they changed a few rules as
soon as they got their first term.
Taking the a, CB out of K Gal's control in Delhi and the way they went
after him from day one. Day one, it was clear and many people who
have been close to BJ P will tell you, Mr. Modi, they changed the
Raman: rules, they changed the administrative rules, rules of Ali after
Supreme Court, uh, you know, gave a decision in his
Abhinandan: favor.
So they clearly realize that K GAL is the bigger danger to mohi than
anything else. But the same pure research, I dunno if it's the same one
you're talking about. It also said that, uh, you know, Indians have a liking
for military rule autocrats and yes, you know, that the, it's a, and it's
[00:49:00] gone up in the last five years, you know, from the last time
this research was done to now.
The number hasn't gone down. The number who prefer autocracy has
gone
Manisha: up. Clear, decisive leader who's not, yeah, who's not bogged
down by, say,
Abhinandan: coalition or parliament. By rules and, you know, these
inconvenient things like constitution. But I think that if
Manisha: you had an opposition face which was a little more coherent
than what Congress is putting up.
Modi could get a very good
Abhinandan: fight. I mean, honestly, I think if you had a level playing
field, Mr. Modi would have not been this large life image, dude. You
have the ed, CBI, the so many, so many people want to go and join, but
they're scared to go. They don't wanna go to jail. Yeah. I'm telling you, I
myself, and it's not like I'm scared of going to jail.
But this is going to incriminate trying to go to jail. I mean, if you go to jail
for a bigger, for trying to get out of the PM's house, I've get out one
month since I was two, three times, you know, we were picked up today
that they'll slap terrorism charges against. Yes. So this, I mean, what I
actually don't agree with is that if there was a [00:50:00] credible face of
the opposition, Modi would not be, there is no credibility opposition
because he has Basically completely taken away resources, which the
electoral bond tells us the fourth, the media has been bought at a level
where people even who want to show the others are too scared to show.
Agencies have been brought over. There's intimidation at, of the most
shocking level that's happening with agencies. If you take all this away,
Mr. Modi is, he's no Marlon Brando or Amitabh Bachchan, dude. But I
think Rahul, you give You give an auditorium full of people, 30 minutes
of Modi and 30 minutes of Kejriwal.
I can tell you, Kejriwal will make Mr. Modi look like a complete, but will
anyone give that? So it's not that, no, why focus on Rahul? They can
have so many, again, who the hell was Kejriwal in 2010? Yeah, he was
nothing. 3000 people had gathered right now. Whatever, 10, 000 people
have gathered in Ladakh. Has anyone gone live?
We've done a couple of stories. Less than one [00:51:00] third of those
people had live wall to wall coverage here in Jantar Mantar. I can tell you
because I used to be calling up reporters and asking them to cover it.
You give the same exposure, Mr. Modi will not last a year. Right.
Manisha: I think Rahul Gandhi, even if he gets the media exposure, it's,
I don't think he's just a media problem.
No, no, I'm talking about Rahul because I think people see Rahul as the
other
Abhinandan: alternative. No, no, no. That is because, that is because
Modi says, Modi says
Manisha: Rahul Rahul. with the same resources that Modi has, regional
leaders have taken him on and beat him in hollow. Because there's
leadership, there's strategy, there's work on ground, there's cadre,
there's There's something to these leaders, which a Congress doesn't
have.
I think like the current Congress cannot take
Abhinandan: on Modi. But to discredit Modi, you don't need Rahul. It
could be anyone. But right now we don't
Manisha: have. They are presenting us only as Rahul as an option.
They are.
Abhinandan: BJP. Even the Congress. Even the Congress do it. But
what I'm saying is that that doesn't matter. If you give a level playing,
now what I'm saying is, why should they decide who you put against
who?
Let the [00:52:00] level playing field decide who they put against, you
know like the, that, that WWF that used to happen. 30 people in the ring,
now the last two surviving will figure it out. Let it go like that. And why
should we have Rahul versus Modi? I reject that. Whole thing. Because
that's what
Manisha: they're giving us.
Who is they? The Congress party. They are not protecting anyone else.
But why do you have to listen to the Congress party? But as a voter, I'm
talking as an Indian voter, when you go out to vote, you're choosing a
central figure, your prime minister. There is the India Alliance, which
doesn't have the prime minister thing.
And there's very clearly Congress. Projects Rahul. All said and done,
Rahul is their leader. No,
Abhinandan: no, no. There's no one else. Maybe Congress's leader.
No, what I'm saying is. So why will
Manisha: I, so for me, I'll go for Modi because he's just, there's a
coherence to his politics. What
Abhinandan: I'm saying is that when you have decided that the
Congress and BJP are deciding for you who the leaders should be, had
anyone decided Manmohan Singh will be, or H.
G. Devgad will be, or I. K. Gujral will be. What I'm saying is that, This
entire framing of Modi versus Rahul is the success of the BJP's media
machine. It is [00:53:00] a completely made up. It is absolutely one other
election in, and I can tell you, so has covered more than me. I have seen
five, seven, uh, Lok Sabha elections.
I have not even seen one election. It was not Atal versus Manmohan
before Atal became, it was not Atal versus Sonia. It was Sonia
Manisha: versus Atal. Sonia was pretty much the face of UPA 1. She
got them to win, but with a great machinery also.
Abhinandan: Hang on, hang on. UPA 1 was not Sonia versus Atal.
Sonia was no one before UPA 1 happened, dude.
You are forgetting.
Manisha: No, but there was this whole thing of where she was going to
be the prime minister and then Sushma
Abhinandan: Sohra and all. Yeah, that is because they had got the
numbers.
Manisha: Okay. But she was pretty much the person on rallies. No, no,
Abhinandan: they were not even expecting to get. I am talking about, I
don't know if you recall, They had no idea they would win.
Ah. I remember Montek Singhaluvalia who was with World Bank, that
night he was called by, Panmohan Singh, please come back to India. He
came next week, he resigned his job. The UP and [00:54:00] I can tell
you, friends of mine were part of that. They had no clue they were
winning that. No clue. But forget that. I am talking about the run up to
that election.
Was it Sonia versus Atal? Are you kidding?
Manisha: Sonia was pretty much a prominent face in that campaign and
there was a coherent Congress leadership. No, there wasn't. I don't think
the UPA one can be compared to the Congress of today. I do think
Abhinandan: there were, I'm not comparing again. I'm talking about,
again, we are going into a different, UPA one is a post election
phenomena.
I'm not comparing UPA one today's Congress. UPA one was post
election phenomena. There was no UPA that contested the election. The
election was contested by Congress. And I can tell you, I was very much
writing on that. I was writing regularly for NDTV, the political satire show.
Sonia was nothing. Sonia became this political entity after election.
Dude, Sitaram Kesari had pushed her out of Congress, what are you
talking about? She had self involved But UPM, and
Manisha: I've read so many of these politi Like, Neerja Choudhury's
book also talks about her campaigning, how she was the face, she
[00:55:00] really took them on. Like, the The U. P. Congress itself like
projected her as the whole Gandhi.
They
Abhinandan: gave her credit for everything. No, they gave her credit
later on, but her entire political, she really earned her chops as a political
strategist till election. Tina, where did the concept of there is no
alternative emerged from? It emerged from the 2004 election. There is
no alternative. If not at all, who?
That is the genesis of this question. Mr. Modi has not invented this
question. And then I've, I've told us on half the promote Mahajan used to
threaten reporters like this here in front of them. Dude, we are coming
back. He was so confident. Sonia Gandhi's entire stature and oh, she's
so big and everyone's scared of her was a completely post election
phenomena.
Before that, no one was scared of Sonia Gandhi. She was not such a big
deal in politics. The way Sita Ram Kesri humiliated her. What are you
talking about? She had to leave the Congress office and you know, in
tears, go to a house [00:56:00] on foot. Yeah. She was nothing.
Manisha: Yeah, I don't know. But you pay one like what I've read from a
lot of political commentators of that time She was supposed to be like
one of the big Election campaigners for the Congress the big she
Abhinandan: was nobody for the rest of the public See once you win,
everybody's great.
I love
Manisha: you pay one. Would you describe Congress's win during you
pay one to Sonia? No, you
Abhinandan: would know you pay one was a Coalition of a
Manisha: 27 party. Yeah, but I'm saying Congress is
Raman: Rahul Gandhi was surprised to, uh, win 21 seats from UP. He
was
Abhinandan: very surprised that UPA too, I would say was phenomenal
because of Manmohan.
There were a variety of reasons. The
Manisha: Farm Loan Waiver basically, that is what it was. It
Abhinandan: was a big deal, dude. Okay. All
Manisha: said and done, but I still think that Congress is not providing
an alternative to Modi. And it is a contest of national parties right now.
And there's no other national party to the BJP. I think Congress has a
clueless leadership here.
They're not inspiring.
Abhinandan: There are, but again, see, there are two things. And even
if you give it to the
Manisha: media,
Abhinandan: I don't think you can say this is a [00:57:00] phone. And
this is a piece of paper. This is a piece of paper because this is a phone.
Again, you are saying Congress has a clueless leadership as if I'm
opposing that.
I'm not pushing back on that. I agree with you. I'm disagreeing on the
following. That means Modi is the only alternative. That is what I'm
disagreeing with.
Manisha: I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that current, uh, sort of
choices in front of the voter for the election is a Congress, Rahul Gandhi
and a Modi.
And
Abhinandan: I am saying that is. It's purely because of the way the
media has framed it. I am saying you are taking something as a given.
As if it is a natural answer, that's the axiom. It is not a given that is
something that has been framed. This is not red because it was bonded.
We chose it to be red. If the designers of the studio had said this is not
going to be, it wouldn't be red.
It could be any color, the media, the agencies, and the corporations
country have decided to pitch it. Modi versus Rahul. Otherwise. Let
chaos prevail and see who emerges. [00:58:00] Yeah, it's, it's not, I
mean, it's not a, you take them, forget the other agents, take media
away. See how long Modi's invincibility
Raman: stays. It helps Modi to project Rahul Gandhi.
It helps him. It helps the BJP.
Manisha: Not just Rahul Gandhi. Not like Congress is saying we
Abhinandan: have something else. Sir, people's credibility, people's
credibility doesn't fall because there is someone to make it fall. If you let
people criticize Modi the way they want to. In mainstream media, his
stature will fall.
Rahul doesn't have to rise. How many like Modi's latest speech and what
was this, um, uh, summit where he's India will be the world load bearing,
whatever, complete nonsensical stuff. You let people make montage of
that and run it on prime time. See what credibility he has left. Cloud se
humne yeh kar diya.
Maine 1970 80 mein email pe bhej diya. Up what, what I'm saying is that
is, but these, these runners montages on legacy media, let them run as
[00:59:00] montage on legacy media Mohi. See in four years how much
credibility has
Manisha: it? I think media is a big factor in their arsenal of why they win,
but I don't think it's the only one.
I do think like absolutely there's a lot more to what the BGP is doing and
yeah, I mean I do think all these regional Mata, Riva, , all these guys
with the same conditions have been able to give Mohi a very good
Tucker. Precisely because they know politics and Congress is failing in
politics.
Abhinandan: Anyway, on that note, we shall take the emails of the
week.
You can give us your feedback or suggestions or recommendations,
your critique, your criticism, but we only entertain the criticism and
feedback of our subscribers. So unless you're a paying subscriber. We
will not really include your email or your feedback. So mail us at
podcasts at newslondon. com. I repeat podcasts at newslondon.
com or click on the link, which opens up this little form and you can give
us your feedback directly. That is a more efficient way of doing it. So, uh,
Here is what we have [01:00:00] from the last few. So, Manisha, you
haven't been here for a while. So,
Manisha: Shweta Godavarthy says, Hi, dear NL. Congratulations.
Project electoral bond.
Congratulations, NL and project electoral bond team. I've been following
NL's reporting on political funding since your piece 2024. And the stories
have educated me of the extent of nexus between corporates, political
parties in power and enforcement agencies. However, I'm failing to see
any direct establishment of quid pro quo.
Is NL doing stories, investigations, examining, casual evidence of an
understanding between a corporate and a ruling party for favors in return
for money, for the time frame of disposit and encashment of EBs, or am I
missing something? Else, for the jaded public, it remains no more than
further evidence of crony capitalism, harassment by enforcement
agencies, and hamam mein sab nange hai rhetoric, which is problematic
in itself, but not enough to jolt us citizens to action.
Keep up the good work. I had the same question of you today. There's
one story that is coming up. No.
Raman: Yeah. [01:01:00] We can't say in as many words, it's good
Proco, but yes, if you look at the proximity of the dates, you know, when
the bond was bought, okay. Say it was, uh, bought say on 27th of
March, right. Today's 27th of March.
Uh, 1st of April, the BJP takes, uh, in cash. Okay. And 7th, Uh, 7th of
April, something happens, either the contract is being given or there is
some tweak in the policy matter. I mean, yeah, I think that is it. So it
needs to be further approved. What is left now is money. Money trail is
also there.
Abhinandan: Exactly. I think there is more evidence of quid pro quo
here.
But yeah, but also, you know what India has extortive bribery. One
bribery is that you give me money and I will do your work. One bribery is
unless you give me money, I'll finish you. [01:02:00]
Manisha: If you want to continue with your business, happily,
Raman: our first story, which was based on the trust, the list that's, uh,
uh, BJP had given to the election commission.
So we identified 41 such companies which were either raided, you know,
by it or, or, uh, Or, uh, GST or, uh, you know, this ED and, uh, before
they, you know, gave donation to the .
Manisha: One case that I found very shocking was this deli liquor
scams, uh, liquor policy at calling it a scam because we don't know if it
is.
Uh, but, uh, this phan Ready who gave five crow to Marta party five days
after, after he was taken custody approval, and then 25. The day after
he was turned an approver. So this is a person, an approver in a case
against the opposition party, which the BJP has. And he's given 25
crore. I think it's So you become
Raman: the approver
Manisha: or you give us the money?
Obviously as journalists we can't directly say anything. But the facts kind
of tell the [01:03:00] story.
Raman: You need to, you know, make it 2 plus 2. So the investigating
agency should, we are giving the, we are giving enough hints that there
is a prima facie case for
Abhinandan: further investigation. But that's up to the agencies.
But Swetha, to answer your question, yes, there are lots more stories
coming up based on electoral reports. Many. You will see them.
Continue over the next few
Manisha: weeks. Yes. Doctor Skeptic says in a reply to a journalist
asking about how Muslims won't be able to practice their Sharia law.
Amitha replied, Indian Muslim has not been living as per Sharia law
since British Times because the criminal code was always uniform.
If Sharia has applied, then thieves will have their hands cut. Rapists will
be stoned to death. Muslims. Can't take loans, can't take interest. To
which prominent Muslim handles on X replied that they do indeed want
Sharia criminal code applied in India. People like Anas Tanvir, Hafta
panelist on UCC has tweeted in response to this that he'll support BJP if
they bring Sharia criminal code.
My question to the panel is how will India address this kind of religious
extremism where prominent Muslims want to? to take us back to
[01:04:00] barbaric times of hands being cut and adulterers being
Abhinandan: stoned. I mean, I can't speak for him, but I can't speak for
the gentleman who you have mentioned. I'm just going on this Twitter
timeline.
I don't know
Manisha: what he has. I think maybe he does. He means sarcastically.
Was he being sarcastic? Maybe
Abhinandan: he's being sarcastic. I don't know, but just, uh, just to give
you an idea that I, um, have spoken to, okay, here it is. Amit Shah is
asking a legitimate question. Anas Tanvir. So, Advocate on Record SC.
So, the thing is that, you know, and this is the problem with religion and
I've discussed this often and many of our co panelists have disagreed at
that time.
Uh, I don't know whether you are aware or not, uh, Dr. Skeptic, even the
Sharia law, Is interpret differently by different people. Ah, so there was
this entire debate was happening and there was someone who is quote
unquote Islamic scholar, [01:05:00] and I was very surprised when he
said that. Uh, I'm not saying Shari, I should be here, but this is a wrong
interpreter.
Shari doesn't say you have to cut off the hands. And I was like, what?
That's what is happening. Like, I'm not gonna, I don't have the time to go
read what said in this had let Dr. Zan do that, what his name is, ZI. But
the point is, I was like, dude, everybody has their own interpretation of
everything.
Manisha: Which is why you need a common criminal code.
Yeah, exactly. Because you can't have different people interpreting it
differently. Anonymous says, how do you think parties like BJP decide
on keeping the same candidate for a Lok Sabha election versus
replacing with a new one? Is there a scientific data back method for this,
which Modi Shah will use like carrying out surveys?
Yeah, all parties do carry out surveys in their constituencies on
popularity, So it is the parties individually, individually. So this would be
there would be some assessment that they do unless until also there are
money bags which are important for a party. So then, you know,
everything else takes a backseat.
Ravinder Singh says, Hi team. Love your [01:06:00] work as always.
Just wanted to let you know this week I received a notification on my
iPhone that my password for newslaundry. com has been compromised
and appeared in a data leak. Really? Not sure if this has anything to do
with the attack on your website, but this does make me worried.
Please send us details for this. Yeah, Ravindra
Abhinandan: just mail me at bhinandansekhari at gmail. com. I mean,
although there has been no attack on our data because, um, the attack
on our website is basically server just sending traffic. There's no data
that goes the other way. But, uh, if you've got such an alert ages, check
if it's actually from us, because I have got a lot of alerts.
And did you guys also get it from me only? I need money, et cetera, with
my photograph and all that. What? No. Who else got it? You got it,
Aryan? Yeah, sometime back. So there was my photograph, my
everything. Tanishka, Tanishka, I'm in trouble. Can you just send me
some money? What? Really? Sumedha also got it. So, um, yeah, but
we'll check Ravinder, mail me up in Andan
Manisha: com.
Julian says Neom [01:07:00] Chomsky expressed in 2023 that it was
misguided to convene the G20 meeting in what he described as
occupied and brutalized region of Jammu and Kashmir, raising concerns
about the moral stance of the grouping in holding such an event in a
region marked by suffering. Should India consider its pursuit of Kashmir
given the ongoing suffering of its people while the efforts yield little
practical results?
The comparison drawn between India's handling of Kashmir and Israel's
occupation suggests troubling parallel, with reports indicating a better
situation in Azad Kashmir compared to Jammu and Kashmir. I don't
know if this No, that's not true. Also, it wasn't held in Jammu and
Kashmir. Maybe like there were some MPs who went there and some
Abhinandan: groupings.
They had a tour that went there and they were saying that's anomalous.
So, During A, I disagree that the situation in Azad Kashmir is better than
Jammu and Kashmir. There is absolutely no, um, what do you call, uh,
economic activity that happened in Azad Kashmir. That's worth speaking
about. Also,
Manisha: it's Pakistan occupied Kashmir, guys, please.
Oh, that's what they
Abhinandan: call it. [01:08:00] No, but even there they have different
versions of how they call it. The, yeah, it's P. O. K. P. O. K. We call it P.
O. K. India calls it P. O. K. In Pakistan, depending on who's talking, they
can call it Azad, they can call it P. O.,
Manisha: whatever. The Kashmir in India is India, they call it
Abhinandan: India Occupied.
So, now, um, I can just tell you, A, I was in Lahore in 2006 or 2007 or
2008, I forget, for an event. It was a big event and there were a lot of
volunteers there who were doing a lot of major work and they were just
really excited and so in the evening when we were sitting and chatting, I
asked one of them, so where are you from?
Young girl, she must have been, you know, early to mid twenties. So
she, uh, said Kashmir, I said, Oh, and then I realized, of course, she
doesn't mean my Kashmir, you know, I said, Oh, okay. And then she had
this really sad smile on her face and [01:09:00] she said, this is the
biggest thing that we look forward to. Other than this, there's no event
that I can actually.
So it's a no contest. You know, I'm no fan of Mr. Modi Shaw. Forget this
government, just the way successive governments have treated Jammu
and Kashmir. It has been extremely unfortunate right from, you know,
the senior Mr. Abdullah being tossed in jail to subverting elections. in
critiquing or criticizing that I don't think anyone should be any illusion that
the other side of Kashmir economic activity is still more on the side in
spite of all the shit that's happening.
What we should be careful is that we do not become Pakistan because
religious fanatism is what took it to the where it is. But even today,
unless you were drunk on religion, like many people on both sides are
from pure economic activity from economic opportunities, would you like
to be that side of the side?
I think for any young person who's looking for a future in life, they would
want to be on this side. It's, I don't think it's even a,
Manisha: you know. Also, I don't think Palestine, [01:10:00] Israel and
the problems in Kashmir. Yeah, that's very different. Okay. Pruthul
Ravindranath. Hello. Abhinandan's glorification of US democracy is very
annoying.
US has been a democracy for 250 years now. And at least until 1960s,
there was mob lynching of minorities. Even today, there are so called
goon squads and KKK active over there. He's so bent on giving the
oldies the leniency towards their dogmatic behavior and LGBTQ plus
communities, but not to Indian democracy, which is barely a hundred
years old.
Listening to him makes it sound like it's the end of Indian democracy. I
don't deny it's a threatening state, but it's the case almost everywhere.
Russia, China, US, depending on who wins. Indians have constantly
protested injustice. Sometimes it works, 2011 protests, and sometimes it
doesn't, anti CA protests.
That doesn't mean that he uses his platform to make a generalized
statement. Also, his example of Nikki Haley was wrong. Her base did
abandon her. She lost the primaries in her own state, and not because
her policies were any different from that of Trump's. It was because
[01:11:00] Republicans warned Trump no matter what.
As an avid subscriber, my request to Abhinandan is to kindly relax his
negativity on Indian democracy and glorification of the West. Stop
glorifying the West. Kyun Trump ko bhi toh, uh, hai, more than Biden. So
we should not look up to
Abhinandan: them. Okay, see now how Manisha replaces words, look
up to everything, you know.
He's saying you're glorifying
Manisha: it. Let him
Abhinandan: say what he wants, man. I'll just, I will dig my heels in on
this Prathul. A. It is not, uh, uh, just the democracy or a charm if I quote,
uh, that this is a hundred years. This is a hundred years old. So then
because they invented the internet 20 years before us, we should come
to internet 20 years later.
Like, so we should, there are certain things that are not how old it is a
concept of democracy. Once it starts spreading in the world, it spreads
at a wave. way faster than others and values. For example, North Korea
is not a democracy. [01:12:00] Does that mean we will be okay with, let's
say they became a democracy today, that for the next 10 years, you
know, slavery should be there.
I mean, they've heard of what's happening the world over, right? So this,
they are 250 years old. I understand that that is a robust. you know,
argument for our institutions aren't that strong. But to say that 60 years,
it'll take us 250 years to get there. Then, I mean, if, if, if that is the unitary
method one applies to everything, then we will be far away on
everything.
It will be 200. And, uh, no, Haley's base did not abandon her. The
Republican party's base prefers Trump. Haley's base still stuck onto
Haley. She did not get zero votes. What I'm saying is she, Trump has
taken over the Republican party, but can Haley switch to the Democrats
today? I guess you understand what I'm saying.
Can you do a complete 180 degree, [01:13:00] a society like that?
Could, could today Corbyn become a, uh, uh, a part of the government?
There's no chance. Could Sunak say, you know what? I'll become
Labour. But here it can happen. Look at Naveen Zindal. I mean, you give
me an example of where it can happen.
Raman: This election is an election of
Abhinandan: turncoats.
So it's not like Nikki Haley abandoned her. Has she joined the
Democrats? And do you think she can? Just answer that question. And
I'm extremely optimistic. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be doing the job I'm doing.
I'm fighting every day. I got one more IT notice the day before yesterday.
While we are recording this, tomorrow is my hearing in the high court.
I would not be fighting if I didn't believe in our country. I am not one of
those who say, Oh, wonderful, wonderful. Look how shit they are. Our
institutions in our country are a different level of going down. Yeah. And
it has nothing to do with how old our democracy is. It is the mindset of
people which comes from [01:14:00] caste system.
We give in to authority like that, and that's the problem.
Manisha: Comrade Shepard says, on the discussion of the Indian
mentality, it seems Prashant Kishore is really optimistic about us Indians
and our revolutionary spirit, whereas Ravish Kumar is getting cynical day
by day like me. It would be a treat if you could get to both of them for an
interview.
Can you do a segment on anti defection laws and how they could Could
or could not apply to hostile takeovers of state governments and states.
It seems my state, Himachal, is getting ready to be taken over. And can
you explain why in Himachal, it seems like everyone has a farm land and
sustain themselves.
Whereas in Punjab, UP, Bihar, etc. It's not the case. Is that the case in
Himachal? Post Zimandari abolition, Asparis are well off compared to
other states in this matter. Why? Not sure if everyone in Himachal has. I
mean, the apple orchards, of course, are pretty, I mean, it's a belt. You
cannot buy land. It's a belt.
You can buy a house. And it's a small state also. You
Raman: can buy a flat, but you can't buy. Agricultural
Abhinandan: land. And
Manisha: that agricultural [01:15:00] land will be there, the orchards and
all. I mean,
Abhinandan: I don't know what the data says, but purely from, you
know, having traveled extensively in many of these states, he's right that
you meet people who would appear to be in the socioeconomic bracket,
See, but they would say, haan hamara ek baag hai, and I'm like, dude,
mera to sala ek apartment bhi So, you know, what I'm saying is Pahadi
people have land and you don't see poverty the day you, the way you do
in a Rajasthan or a UP or a Bihar or even a Punjab in the hills in
Uttarakhand, in Himachal.
You don't see that poverty. So I don't know whether
Manisha: they are. I think Himachal is better off though. Uttarakhand is
still quite poor. And I think it's got to do with apple farming because it's
just more lucrative. So even if you have a small scale bag with just like
six apple trees, you are able to generate an income that.
You know, you won't in others, but that's purely because of Apple, I
think, and fruit. I don't [01:16:00] think Uttarakhand is, Uttarakhand,
Garhwal areas can be very desperately poor. Really? Yeah. Even
Kumaon regions where there are ghost villages and people have left and
there's really nothing for people to do but join army or drive a taxi.
Abhinandan: All right. So if you have anything to say, you can write into
us at podcasts at newslondon. com. I repeat podcasts at newslondon.
com and support journalism and pay to keep news free. On that note,
what are the recommendations? Raman, do you want to go first? Yeah,
Raman: there are three good, uh, news, uh, uh, articles.
One video, the video is with the news laundry. Uh, and Anmol Pritam is
back in our team and Anmol Pritam did a very good video, 20 minute
long video on Jawaharlal Nehru university elections. He was, he spent
the entire night. It's worth watching. And especially the tadka in this were
three musketeers who had come from Delhi university and [01:17:00]
they said, so they have given a certificate.
It's a very interesting, uh, uh, report. So must watch. Then there was one
full page article in Hindu last week, the dream chasers, uh, who got
inducted into a war. So this is about, you know, many Muslims and many
Indian Muslims. Uh, you know, who ended up going to Russia for a job
and now they are fighting for Russia, you know, in, in this Ukraine war.
So, so I think there are, uh, even MEA had issued about 150 odd Indians
have gone to, recently have gone to Russia. So it's a story of those
people. Uh, this, uh, in this story, Hindu has met their family and, uh, you
know, have, uh, done a story on their socio, uh, uh, economic status and
why these people have, uh, had [01:18:00] gone to Russia.
And the third is a very good, uh, uh, the crime story. And I hats off to
Bengaluru police. Uh, it was an anchor in Indian express, how police
tracked a baseball cap from CCTV to key accused in Bengaluru cafe
blast. Case. Wow. It's a beautiful story. In fact, just one cap. Mm. And
they identified the, the criminal and, and the story, uh, you know, gives,
uh, uh, reconstructs the entire, uh, you know, criminal act and how the
Bangor police, you know, caught.
This guy. So, good story. Uh, in the Indian Express.
Manisha: So, um, my recommendation would be A, all the project
electoral bond stories that we've done with NewsUnit, Scroll,
Independent Journalists and ORF. I quite liked Raj Kamal Jha's speech
at the Ramnath Goenka Award. I don't know if you guys have seen it,
but you should.[01:19:00]
I was there. You were there. And Arunpuri were also there. I really liked
the pot shot, the subtle pot shots he took there. The media that is it now
bend over there. So I I thought it was a good speech So you should
watch that and of course watch nuisance if you haven't because you talk
about it. Yeah But you mentioned Kalipuri and the
Abhinandan: camera pan to them.
It was all it was all about India day conclave As opposed to the , the
contrast in the two events.
Manisha: Yeah. Star, that's what couldn't have been starco and uh,
yeah, I was in and the tradition is to read Ruskin Bond in Raun. So I
read his book The Many Joys of Living a Good long Life, which I think is
very nice.
If you're scared of old age, then you should read it 'cause it can be very
fruitful old age if you read his book. So, in fact, a lot of time, a lot of good
things to learn. So
Abhinandan: it's a, it's a good thing you reading, you know, Ruskin
Bond because. [01:20:00] So many people wrote in saying that this is
such a heavy news. A couple of weeks, electoral bond issues out,
election been announced, where's Manisha?
I hope she's working because our, you know, subscribers, Manish, are
paying, she should be working. No, I couldn't say that she is. Reading
Raskin Bond. On leave for two months. I suggest she's working on bond,
so it wasn't a lie. Oh, I'm reading Raskin Bond. It wasn't
Manisha: a lie. Please, I work throughout the year, okay?
I deserve. Now you're going to get letters. Last time also you got letters,
don't shame her for taking
Abhinandan: leave. But uh, yeah, I completely agree. No, no leave as
much as I personally believe people who don't take leave have
compromised decision making ability and people who don't get enough
sleep have compromised decision making ability and people who work
too hard have compromised decision making ability which is why we
have criticism like demonetization.
Dude, if you don't, don't work 18 hours a day, work 8, please sleep 8
Manisha: hours a day, this
Raman: [01:21:00] is your experience with our
Abhinandan: prime minister or what, he
Raman: works 26 hours in a day, not 24 hours.
Abhinandan: I've been there. Yeah. When you are young, luckily I was
never given a task where I had to take a decision, right? As production
assistants, as researchers during elections.
Our tasks were very basic. Make, get, make sure Vaghela makes it from
the entry of the gate to where your correspondent Uday Mahurkar, who's
now election information commissioner, he'll be interviewed without the
public beating him up. That was my job. So there's, it's not complicated.
So I was making sure because Vaghela just flipped at that time.
These are the kind of tasks you were given. So you could stay up two,
three nights and accomplish by the fourth day. I was not sure whether
I'm standing, whether I'm You know, we've been there, you know, now
imagine if I had to take those important decisions and I was in that
[01:22:00] condition, I would, I would do demonetization only.
Raman: No, no, in our profession, the reporters are mostly in that
condition. Yeah, our profession is such and, uh, you know, the teams
are not
Abhinandan: very big, so they should not become PMs.
Manisha: Otherwise, they will report it. I think the desk needs to be well
rested. You can't edit a copy without having slept. Yeah,
Raman: that's why we have five
Manisha: days a week or there is somebody, you can, uh, I mean, as a
corollary, you can Uh, report drunk, but you can never edit drunk.
Always be sober when you're editing. Oh, you have to. Not to say that
you should get drunk and report, but they're two different.
Abhinandan: People tell me that for IIT preparation, people drink and
study, it registers more. I'm like, I've never. I was like, I don't know
which, what, how your brain, I've, I've,
Manisha: even the old school editors, these stories about having old
monk in the office and smoking, I can't understand [01:23:00] how they
were doing it.
Like they must be geniuses.
Abhinandan: I don't see how you, how can you be
Manisha: drinking?
Raman: It used to happen during Vinod Mehta's time. Uh, you know,
having your vodka and coffee, uh, in the newsroom, but, but, uh, not,
not, uh, you know, so randomly sometimes it used to happen, but yes.
Uh, they used to, we used to romanticize it.
Abhinandan: I've heard these engineering colleges guys claim that
when they smoke up and study it registers more. I was like, I don't
understand how all this works anyway. So my recommendation for the
anymore, by the way, Manisha, no, that's it. So my recommendation for
the week is this new podcast I've discovered and I'm, I love it.
So I keep going back to it. Uh, this week they had one episode on the
curse of the world's fastest growing economy, which is the Guyana
economy, which is a country in South America, right up north. [01:24:00]
up north, uh, it, it, um, what do you call borders, Venezuela, and I think
Brazil, if I'm not wrong. So it has struck oil in 2015.
And ever since I struck oil, it's the world's fastest growing economy. Like
Exxon is there, everybody, that entire, we are abandoning fossil fuels.
And these guys also bloody, Venezuela suddenly has said, Oh, you
know, we own so much land. So they're getting, they're building their
army bases. Uh, and it's an interesting thing of, you know, that Joko, if
there's oil there, America's interested.
If there's oil here, this is what happens. It is playing out in real time. And
I think it's a fascinating story of a country and also India is not the world's
fastest growing economy. It is a rather worrying country, which I don't
know which way it's going to go. So that's not in itself enough. On that
note, I'd like to thank [01:25:00] our producer Aryan and our sound
recordist Naresh.
Uh, and thank you, Manisha and Raman sir. Thank you. And, uh, do you
think we should say bye bye with an Amma Subbalakshmi song or a Tic
Music song, uh, our audience can tell the difference. Here it goes,
Manisha: You for your subscription. You're changing the world by
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