Martin Lewis became embroiled in a clash with a journalist as he accused her of "pooh-pooing" ideas to help people save money on their heating and electricity bills.
The money saving expert, 50, hosted Good Morning Britain with Susanna Reid today as they addressed the cost of living crisis and spiralling energy bills.
They were joined by former Tory MP Edwina Currie and journalist and author Ella Wheelan to discuss the government spending money on public information to help people reduce their energy costs.
While Edwina agreed with the idea, Ella pointed out that it's a "reframing of the energy crisis as something that individuals need to take on as some kind of crusade".
Martin began by saying: "Edwina - I'm on side with you on this one, before we come to Ella. We're spending something like £130billion on the energy price guarantee. 0.1% of that is £130million, £15million on public information that could reduce the cost of that to the state that could improve energy security.
"It could mean less blackouts and could save people money on their energy bills and to push out and get the information out there seems sensible to me."
Ella responded: "Martin's right, there's nothing wrong with information but if you look at the kind of information that's being offered, it's worth picking apart.... people are being told to lower their boiler flow, which means that you would have the most miserable showers in the world.... draft proofing - I mean, if you're sat in a draft, you know you're in a draft.
"There's a deeper element to this - you have a government that is unwilling to take seriously any kind of future plans for energy production. They're still banding around the idea of net zero, which could mean a cut in living standards in terms of our energy consumption, not being serious about producing and innovating around better energy sources.
"The way I interpret this is that it's not just an information campaign, because no one can argue with information, but that it's a reframing of the energy crisis as something that individuals need to take on as some kind of crusade."
Martin pointed out: "Look, I have a lot of sympathy and I think the lack of insulation in UK homes... I mean, the green deal was awful, home improvement was terribly designed... but in the short term, this winter, energy prices are hugely high and there is a risk of blackout.
"I get everything you're saying about the longer term and energy supply. Would not a publicly funded - and it's not Jacob Rees-Mogg information campaign by the way, before anyone thinks it, if I was involved I wouldn't take any money for doing so so it's not like I'm trying to put money in my pocket."
Susanna quipped: "It wasn't your fee that led to it being cancelled."
Martin continued to ask: "Would that not be helpful?"
"This is the thing, it's not that information isn't helpful [but] there's a kind of Covid pandemic legacy - throughout the pandemic there was lots of public information," Ella said. "Insightful and interesting information from scientists, which is a similar thing that's happening with the environment. Who doesn't want to listen to someone who knows the science and stuff?
"But the way in which the information is used is important. I think we are pretending that all the government has to do is tell us to turn off the radiator. Just a very clear point - if you're a working class and if you're looking at the kind of bills that are heading towards you, you know how to save energy. You know how to do it because you're doing it. I just think that putting any more pressure on people to do more is unfair."
"To reduce this to turning lights off... there's a lot of interesting information out there," Martin insisted.
Ella interjected: "I didn't say turn lights off - we know that turning off lights does nothing."
Martin insisted that information was helpful, referencing out a shower suggestion that could help people save money.
But Ella burst out: "What a miserable existence! What do you want us to do, huddle around a coal fire?"
"Hold on - using equipment that gives you a roughly similar shower without a sacrifice, saving money, is not an insensible thing," Martin said. "It's also good for the environment, the water usage, people can get them for free and see if they like them. But to pooh-pooh them out of hand, I'm afraid you're actually encouraging people to have a more miserable existence by doing it from scratch!
"I totally agree with your concept that we need to do more in the future, but when you come down the back and pooh-pooh every single idea."
*Good Morning Britain airs weekdays at 6am on ITV
