Narendra Modi has appeared as a guest on the Lex Fridman Podcast, with the Indian prime minister offering a rare foreign interview to the technologist and former Elon Musk sparring partner.
Fridman described their interaction as “one of the most powerful conversations” he has hosted so far, and said he fasted for 45 hours in preparation to “talk spiritually” with Mr Modi.
The three-hour interview has received a huge amount of interest back home in India, where Mr Modi is known for avoiding questions from the media except in carefully controlled circumstances. He only recently addressed his first three press conferences abroad despite having led India for over a decade.
Here are five key takeaways from their conversation:
‘I’m not neutral, I strive for peace’, Modi says on Ukraine war
Mr Modi was asked about his “geopolitical leverage” in the world today amid a number of global conflicts, but particularly in the context of Russia and Ukraine.
Describing India as the land of Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi, Mr Modi boasted that is one of the few leaders who enjoys a close relationship with both Russia and Ukraine, warning Kyiv that no amount of discussion or support from allies will end the war until both parties are involved in negotiations.
"I have a close relationship with Russia and Ukraine alike," he said. "I can sit with president Putin and say that this is not the time for war. And I can also tell president Zelensky, in a friendly way, that brother, regardless of how many people stand with you in the world, there will never be a resolution on the battlefield."
Mr Modi said an end to the war would only come when both Russia and Ukraine are at the negotiating table and the “current situation presents an opportunity for meaningful and productive talks between Ukraine and Russia”.
“I am not neutral,” Mr Modi said, apparently addressing the criticism the country has faced for not directly criticising Russia, a close ally and defence partner, for its war in Ukraine as New Delhi increased its trade with Moscow.
“I have a stance, and that is peace, and peace is what I strive for,” Mr Modi added.
Pakistan is ‘epicentre of turmoil’ in the world
In a scathing attack on neighbouring Pakistan, Mr Modi said the “world has recognised that in a way terrorism and the terrorist mindset are deeply rooted in Pakistan”.
His comments came as he was asked whether he saw a path to friendship and peace in the historical conflict being the “great peacemaker” and “visionary” he is.
"They chose not to foster a harmonious coexistence. Time and again, they decided to be at odds with India. They have waged a proxy war against us. Don't mistake this for ideology," he said, referring to Pakistan.
Mr Modi asked what kind of ideology “thrives on bloodshed and the export of terror”, adding that India was not the only victim.
“Wherever terror strikes in the world, the trail somehow leads to Pakistan. Let’s take the September 11th attacks, for example. The main mastermind behind it, Osama bin Laden, where did he eventually emerge from? He had taken refuge in Pakistan," Mr Modi said.
“Today, it (Pakistan) stands as an epicentre of turmoil, not just for India but for the world. And we have repeatedly asked them what good can come from this path?”
In his efforts in the pursuit of peace, he said he personally traveled to Lahore in 2015 and even invited Pakistan to his swearing-in ceremony in 2014.
“Yet, every noble attempt at fostering peace was met with hostility and betrayal,” he claimed.
Trump is ‘far more prepared’ in his second term
Mr Modi was asked about his recent visit to the US and what he thinks about Donald Trump as a friend and as a leader.
Mr Modi hailed their “sense of mutual trust” and “strong bond”, drawing similarities between their nationalist approaches in leadership.
"His reflection showed his 'America First' spirit, just as I believe in Nation First," Mr Modi told Fridman.
He said Mr Trump was “far more prepared” for his second term.
"He has a clear roadmap in his mind with well-defined steps, each one designed to lead him toward his goals," he added.
Mr Modi praised Mr Trump for his “graciousness and humility”, underscoring a strong bond between the leaders.
India is among the trading partners set to face the tariffs from April, which threaten to cause distress to its exporters in industries from automobiles to agriculture. After Mr Modi and Mr Trump met last month, the two nations agreed to resolve tariff rows and work on the first segment of a deal by the autumn of 2025, aiming to reach two-way trade of $500bn by 2030.
There is ‘no real history of conflict’ with China
Asked about India’s longstanding territorial disputes with China, Mr Modi attempted to downplay the recent tensions following a 2020 border standoff in the Himalayas that resulted in soldiers being killed on both sides.
Speaking of their historical ties, Mr Modi said there is no real history of conflict between the two and India and China are like "family" despite fighting a full-scale war along their border in 1962.
"If we look back centuries, there's no real history of conflict between us. It has always been about learning from each other and understanding one another," Mr Modi said.
"Even within a family, not everything is always perfect, our effort is to ensure these differences don’t turn into disputes”, he added.
India and China share a 3,488km border that runs from Ladakh in the west to Arunachal Pradesh in the east. China holds a large piece of territory called the Aksai Chin in Ladakh that it won during the 1962 war with India and claims Arunachal as part of the province of Tibet.
Relations between the hostile neighbours hit a new low in July 2020 after at least 20 Indian army personnel and four Chinese soldiers were killed in a deadly clash in the Galwan Valley in Ladakh. It was the first time in 45 years that a clash on the border had led to fatalities.
However, the two militaries reached a milestone pact last year to reduce tensions on the border, opening the possibility of a thaw in relations after years of standoff.
"Slowly but surely, trust, enthusiasm, and energy will return," Mr Modi said.
"But of course, it will take some time, since there's been a five-year gap," he said, adding that the focus of the two nations was to ensure their differences "do not turn into disputes".
2002 Gujarat riots: Modi says he is victim of misinformation
Mr Modi was also questioned about the 2002 Gujarat riots, a period of sectarian violence that lasted nearly three months and embroiled him in a long legal battle over his government's handling of the situation. He was the chief minister of the western Indian state at the time, and was accused of ordering police to step aside and allow Hindu mobs to target Muslims.
Mr Modi has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing in the course of the religious riots that left more than 1,000 people – most of them Muslims – dead in his state, but the allegations continued to shadow him even after he became prime minister in 2014. He was finally cleared of wrongdoing by the Supreme Court of India and a Special Investigation Team (SIT) appointed to probe the matter.
Mr Modi said in the podcast it was a “tragedy of unimaginable magnitude” but denounced the “fake narrative” that spread regarding his role during the riots.
He refuted claims that they were the “biggest riots” India had seen and claimed the state had a long history of religious violence. He blamed his political opponents who were in power for seeking to leverage the issue.
“Before 2002, Gujarat witnessed over 250 significant riots. The riots in 1969 lasted nearly six months. So, there was a long history, long before I was in the picture,” he added.
But Mr Modi claimed “criticism is the soul of democracy” as he denounced “sensationalism”.
His comments on the riots have sparked a political row in India, with members of opposition party criticising him for “justifying” the violence.
Congress politician Danish Ali said: "The way the PM has tried to justify the Godhra riots shows the failure of Vajpayee government regarding the law and order situation of the country. The way he talked about the Kandahar hijacking, parliament attack and more, this is, in a way, a condemnation of Vajpayee government." Atal Bihari Vajpayee served as prime minister briefly in 1996 then again from 1998 to 2004. Vajpayee was one of the few leaders of the BJP to express anguish when hundreds of Muslims were killed rioting in 2002 in Gujarat.
Senior Congress politician Harish Rawat said Mr Modi has to take responsibility and the responsibility of the violence will always stick with him.
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