*Edu begins*
It’s important people understand where we go and why we go and which kind of direction we go. Because if you don’t understand, it’s difficult to support. Or even difficult to judge. If you don’t have a proper strategy, an idea which external people don’t really understand, it’s challenging because we as a club can send a message: this is our strategy and then you guys can judge. I like, I don’t like this strategy. That’s fine.
But the problem is when you don’t have a strategy or when you guys don’t understand the direction we go. Because then you start to be heat from everywhere. We buy a player – 24, 23, 22 – with one strategy but if you don’t tell this strategy, they go (He tuts): too young, too young, why are you doing that?
No, we have a strategy, we have ideas, we have a plan. You like or don’t like. That’s fine. I accept that. But I say a lot: people have to understand what you’re going to do. People have to really get the idea and then let’s judge it.
READ MORE: Edu opens up on Arsenal plan as he seeks to move Gunners away from their comfort zone
When did the plan start because the likes of David Luiz and Willian have come in since then?
With all due respect, the plan started really when we decided to change Unai Emery. That was my first planning – to go to the board, explain to them the reason we want to change, the reason we want to go a different direction. Because the idea behind it was to have a coach with a very clear idea. A very clear plan. Very clear structure – how he wants to play. And from that we’re going to build something together.
If you have a coach and it’s difficult to read how he plays – in terms of system, characteristics etc – it makes our life super complicated. And then we can make a lot of mistakes on recruitment because we don’t really understand and it’s not easy to find the right player for the right system for the right coach.
We had to be really brave to make the decision in the middle of the season. Internally people said to me: 'wow, we never did that before. We did that a long, long time ago.' I said no problem, but if you have already diagnosed it’s not our plan, change. As soon as possible. Otherwise you're going to postpone, postpone, postpone. In football sometimes the decision has to be (made) quickly. It hurts, it’s challenging, but it has to be done.
Then I started to interview coaches, talk to coaches etc. When I met Mikel, I went to his house, we had a great relationship straight away: conversation, ideas etc. Then I see: this guy has a plan, this guy has an idea how he wants to play. Now he’s going to make the club’s life easier. In that pathway – okay we sign, plan, ideas, Mikel let’s do a plan and then I give to the club a five-year plan.
Then I said to Mikel and to the board: guys 2022/23 will be the season we’re going to be much better. I give you my reason why and then I said the same thing to Mikel: we have to be patient because we cannot do like this in football, it would be impossible to take everyone out and put everyone in, we need a process to do that. We need good decisions, we need to be brave, we’re going to challenge some difficult moments with players, agents etc. But that’s the plan. Are we okay on that?
We presented to the board our plan. We received a lot of good messages and then, of course, during that journey, that two years: David Luiz, Willian were the players which we considered at that moment the players to help a little bit to maintain the short term in the good level. Right or wrong, that was the idea. Because I’d say: Willian, free. Wow. If with his feet he’s feeling well, he’s going to help us for sure for short periods. David Luiz with experience, knowledge of the Premier League, okay for short periods, maybe for the process he’s going to help us. Works, doesn’t work. But the idea was there.
There has been a pretty ruthless turnover of players since the plan began hasn't there?
Listen, for me there are three elements which in my role I have to be really prepared to be strong on the message to the players. When the player is: 26-plus, big salary and he’s not performing? He’s killing you that kind of player. Because you don’t have a valuation to sell the player, the player is comfortable – Arsenal, London, beautiful everything is fantastic – and a good salary. How do you move this player?
So how many players with that kind of characteristics did we have in the past? 80% of the squad, that’s why I said to them when I made my plan: guys, it’s not easy to clean the squad straight away because most of the players have a 2-3-4 year contracts. We need a strategy, we need to try to change things.
Are the owners comfortable with not getting fees for some players?
If you imagine, 'Oh, no problem: this season we’re going to expose the player a little bit more and then we sell them' - no, be realistic. You don’t want to sell the player. Try to avoid one more year with the problem inside, in the dressing room, expensive, not performing. Clean, take it out. Even, I’m sorry, if you have to pay. To leave is better. Because that guy is sometimes also blocking someone. Take it out.
I know it hurts, I know it’s strange when I go to the board and say: "Sometimes it’s better to pay a player to leave, than maintain them." But I consider it an investment. Sometimes people say: 'It’s expensive'. I say: 'No, it’s investment.' But someone will pay if you sell? No, guys - if the player is above 26, 27 and not performing, big salary, no chance.
Are you worried that that sets a precedent?
Tell me how many players in the squad we have with those characteristics (of being over 25 on big contracts) today. I can tell you next summer (we won't have as many). Have a look at the valuation of the players we have, the age of the group what we have, and the salaries that we have today. Now, as part of the plan, we create value in our players today. All this squad today, is because I don’t want to face that situation many times more. Now if someone wants, say, Gabriel (Magalhaes) - ok, come here. No problem.
Did the plan need to be youth orientated?
I don’t want to be unfair, it’s not Edu’s plan - it’s the club’s plan. I lead the ideas, I open the discussion, and then we’re building together. Some ideas - what do you think about this, what do you think about that - Ok, that would be nice. And then together we make a plan. Of course, Mikel is part of the plan - and Mikel helps to build the plan as well. And the board too - I accept a lot of recommendations, a lot of discussion to try to put everything together.
I started with some ideas and a direction and lead some processes, but it’s not my plan. They are involved with it. That’s why I think we’re working so well and so nicely, because everybody feels part of the process. Everybody is enjoying because everybody sees what we’re doing.
How big a role did youth play in Mikel's plan when he spoke to you?
It was a football plan. How he wants to play, the style etc, players, characteristics, very technical points: how he wants to play, people inside or external, how we’re going to press. It’s a lot of technical stuff, and he showed me he has a very clear idea of how he wants to play football, which again helps us to make decisions.
Were you heavily involved in the decision to give Arteta a new contract or did it come from the board, and why did you do it before the end of the season?
I was an important part of this process as well. Of course, I can recommend, I can talk, but the decision in the end is for the owners and the board. But it was part of the plan as well, because we had discussions where we said: 'Ok, now we’re going to face a transfer window.' And if you want to be a club like Arsenal, and for people to see us as very organised, well-planned, our manager has to be renewed. Because the agents and the players can say: 'Ok, what’s happening there? One year? Six months? A three year contract?' We say: 'No, no, no — he’s our coach, he’s our manager, and he’s going to be here with us for a minimum of three years more.' That’s how to avoid any doubts when you’re going to sign a player.
What was the objective last season?
If we got Champions League last season, we would have advanced one year [ahead] in the project.
How did you analyse the failure to make top four?
Exactly what’s happening today. I felt in some important moments we needed players like the players we are signing today. In those kinds of moments - we’re going to play an important game, pressure, we have to win the game to be in the Champions League - you need a squad with… 'I want to kill someone.' You know? I’m not saying we don’t have a [good] squad, but we need a bigger squad with personalities, with some behaviours, that say, 'I don’t lose that game. I will kill someone but I don’t lose the game.' I think we’ve added some more players with that kind of character.
Does character come first when targeting players?
For sure. Talk to Gabriel, talk to Zinchenko, talk to Fabio. [Points to head] Here is the win. Ah, Champions League, ok - I accepted that, because I want to be realistic. But here [points to head again], I want to win. A club like Arsenal, at our size, is not building to be fighting for fourth place. I’m sorry. We have to realistic - there’s City, Liverpool etc - that’s fine, I accept that. But also, you can not accept that. Here, when you join this club, when you see our size, we cannot accept it.
That’s why I was really really hurt when I arrived. I said: 'That’s not the mentality of this football club. What’s happening? Everybody’s comfortable, everybody’s ok, ok, ok…' F*** you, 'ok'. 'Ok'? No, I don’t want to lose games, we have to be there again. And I want to see the physios, I want to see the scouting, I want to see everyone with that kind of feeling, where you say: 'F****** hell, now we are going to really go for things.' And I think we are changing. Again, it doesn’t happen overnight, but I think we are changing and putting some good mentality in the squad. Characters.
How do you convince players like Gabriel Jesus and Oleksandr Zinchenko to come?
It’s a nice process to be fair, to convince the player. It’s a long process but a nice one. Face to face - I go there, I meet the player, if I have to travel to Germany, anywhere. Where is the player? I want to see the player, the agent, the family, put everyone together and say: 'Guys, listen to me and what I want to say.' And I really like to meet the family and have them listen to me as well. And then I sell what we are doing, our project. Because it works both ways, doesn’t it? I want to show them, but I want to see as well if they want to enjoy, because if I smell something wrong - thank you very much, I go.
What happens if you sense they just want the money?
I faced an experience like this, for a player in Dortmund. I started to talk to them, engage the player, talk to the family, but always: 'Yeah, but what about my contract?' I said: 'Listen, I want to understand first if you engage with this, if you like this. If you like it, I can talk, but not the opposite side.' 'Ah no, let’s talk about the money…' No no no no. And one day, I said to the agent: 'Guys, thank you very much, it’s not what I want to do.' Boom.
Who do you speak to to gauge a player’s character?
It’s a lot of people. The football world is like this (makes a tight fist). You have friends, you have ex-footballers, you have players who played with you, you have family, you have physios. You can use a lot of easy information today.
With Gabriel and Alex, Mikel knows everything already?
I worked with Gabriel as well from the national team. I know him, I know his family, I know everyone and that’s why I decided to go there to talk to the family. I said to him one thing, which his agent said was really nice, I said: 'Gabriel, I’m here to try to sign you, but not the Gabriel from this season, I want the Gabriel from the other seasons because this season you’ve not played the way I know you. You’ve lost your shine. When I see you this season, I’m not seeing you as before because I know you very well. I want the Gabriel from last season because again you have to be Gabriel.'
What did he say when you said that?
He looked at me and said: 'You’re right.'
Gabriel Jesus said that you surprised him with some statistics when trying to convince him to join Arsenal. What were the statistics you surprised him with?
Part of the conversation is to explain to the player the reason why we want to sign them. I can explain the project, I can explain the ideas, I can explain how important he was to be in the squad and why and that’s because he fits the characteristics of what we need. Then I said to him: 'You see how much we have to improve in that area. We have a good squad, but in that area, we have to improve. We have to make our squad better here. And you’re the guy.'
Had you spotted something that he could do better as well?
No I tried to be very focused on him, and explain to Gabriel, or to the others, where they’re really going to impact the squad and the reasons. Of course there are other players that want to support it also. It’s quite clear if you see where we were last season. The data can show why we didn’t make the top four.
Is date quite important to your recruitment?
It helps. It’s part of the process. Data is just part of the process. It’s one more element to help us try to avoid mistakes.
How difficult was it to miss out on players like Lisandro Martinez and Raphinha?
I have a very good relationship with agents and players because it’s part of my role. But when I start to talk to them, they explain to me as well, not only some ideas about Arsenal. I say: 'Be transparent to me because I can help you, what possibilities do you have, what do you want to do? I can give you information as well but give me a bit as well.' For example, Raphinha was clear - and Deco is my close friend - he wants to go to Barcelona. That is his dream. So I said: 'Thank you very much. We’re not going to dedicate time for blah, blah, blah, that’s fine.'
Is it a hard sell without Champions League football?
It depends how you sell it. We’re not in the Champions League but if we get there you will be the guy that gets us there. That’s the way I say it. How long since we won the Premier League? You can put your name in Arsenal history and that would be something special. Just because we’re not in the Champions League, there are so many special things to achieve here.
The top four is getting stronger. How much more difficult is it to break into?
It is difficult, which is why we have to be realistic. But also, why not? They may be good teams but they are not unbeaten like 2003/04!
You lost a lot of big salaries recently. Did you need to do that for the wage bill?
To be fair, my first thoughts were about the quality in the squad. Of course I have to be aware of the salaries. But I started by thinking this player is not the profile I want. And when they have a big salary then you have to take the decision as soon as possible to try to reduce the wage bill. There’s a lot of discussions about how to manage our wage bill but if a guy is performing and has a big salary, that’s not a problem. The problem is always with performance. We would be happy to pay any money if the guy is performing like a top.
Was it difficult to impost the pay cut during COVID?
We just talked to the players in the best way possible to make them aware, rather than having a 'boom' and tell them you have to do it like this. We explained the difficult challenges for everyone, and asked how do guys feel about that? Let’s have an open discussion.
When I am involved I really like to humanise the decision of the situations to avoid always 'bam, bam, you have to do that'. Let’s be calm. Let’s make a challenging situation more relaxed. Let’s be human on the situation.
How did you develop that style of management?
It’s a personal style. I’ve always been like this. Even when I was a player, you can’t avoid conflict in football but I always tried to work out how to manage that conflict. There are different ways. You can be [smashes fists together] or you can be relaxed.
How does the culture now compare to the culture when you were a player here?
Arsene was a very human guy. I learned a lot from Arsene Wenger. He put a lot in place that maybe people didn’t see. He really tried to look after you and your family. He was always very focussed on taking care of the people. I liked that.
How is it going with Saka's contract ?
Good, very good. Everybody is happy. When you have one situation, everyone is happy and enjoying.
The negotiations seem to be dragging on
It’s normal. We’re going to sit and put all the expectations in the right place. Our expectations and his, his family and his agents' expectations and put everything together. The main thing is how he feels, how he feels comfortable with us. He’s happy, we’re happy, so it’s just sit down and find a solution.
Part of the plan is when you are starting to sell the players, that’s the challenging one. You already need someone prepared. [If we can then] sell, [and if] we are able to do that and then chapeau. It’s very challenging.
For example, let’s talk about next season or another. If we sell, I don’t know, Bukayo Saka - that’s not going to happen but it’s just an example. If we’re going to sell Bukayo Saka, we as a club have to prepare his replacement straight away. So someone has to be in the squad or we have to manage the market well so if we sell we have him, we have someone straight away to replace him in our model.
Like what Liverpool did with Luis Diaz and Sadio Mane?
Yes, that’s a very nice plan.
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