Jonah, 23, Plymouth
Occupation University administrator
Voting record Goes for the party best placed to oust the Tories. So Lib Dem in West Dorset, now Labour in Plymouth. Jonah, who was too young to vote in the EU referendum, describes himself as very leftwing
Amuse bouche Jonah is a distant cousin of Leonard Cohen
Ricky, 66, Plymouth
Occupation Dog walker; retired university lecturer
Voting record Labour and Green. Remain in the EU referendum, “and I’m still very sad about it”
Amuse bouche Ricky teaches tricks to the dogs she walks. She’s writing her first novel
For starters
Jonah It was an amazing place, a fine-dining restaurant attached to a hotel and spa. I was dressed as appropriately as I am willing to dress – shirt and chinos. There was a chap who kept coming over and pouring my tap water, which was nice of him.
Ricky Jonah is vegan. I pretty much went for the vegan menu. I’m not vegetarian, but they brought me something at the beginning that had pork in it. I can’t eat pork since I saw a video of a pig doing a puzzle. We eat meat at home. I live with an Iraqi Kurd – they love their meat.
Jonah I think animals have a right to live and humans have reached a point in our evolution where we no longer need to eat them.
The big beef
Ricky My parents’ generation were in the war; their parents’ generation were in the great war. It was a bit more hard-nosed – there wasn’t all this woke stuff. People were probably less thoughtful, they were simpler, things were a bit less fancy and life was harder. You couldn’t sit around and stare at your navel. You just had to bloody well get on with it. People now complain: “I can’t do what I want – I have to work in a bank, and I want to be a sculptor.”
Jonah I think Ricky sees people of my generation as not being grateful enough for what we have. The job I do isn’t necessarily the job I’d do in an ideal world. I should be – and I am – grateful, but I can also want more from my life. I can want more for everyone in the world than the careers they are forced to accept through their economic circumstances.
Ricky I don’t want to be thoughtless, I know people genuinely suffer. But I was watching a television programme where some girls were moaning about being overweight or underweight, and I just thought: go to Somalia and look at those babies who are suffering from malnutrition. I’m married to a man who came here as a refugee and had a hard life.
Sharing plate
Ricky We agreed on Brexit. We both read literature at university, and I think people who do that are a certain kind of person. But then I went out into the university of life and became more pragmatic and less idealistic.
Jonah We are both broadly leftwing. We both think climate change is a tremendous issue, and that the politicians aren’t doing nearly enough.
For afters
Jonah On freedom of speech and cancel culture we had different ideas about where to draw the line. One of her kids listens to Joe Rogan podcasts and she was distressed by attempts to get him taken off Spotify when he invited someone who spread Covid misinformation on to his show.
Ricky I feel a bit like that quotation attributed to Voltaire: “I disapprove of what you’re saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” There are laws against hate crime, there are libel laws – that is enough and people are entitled to speak. Nigel Farage has a right to be heard, but there has to be a robust rebuttal as well.
Jonah: I discussed Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance with Ricky – the idea that in order to have a tolerant society you cannot tolerate intolerance. If free speech is extended to people who express the opinion that certain groups shouldn’t be allowed to exist, then those people will take over your society and prevent anyone speaking freely except them.
Takeaways
Ricky It’s really interesting to talk in depth with someone who is so knowledgable and has different views.
Jonah Ricky has lived all over the world. Those experiences inform her worldview. We enjoyed each other’s company. I enjoyed the posh restaurant.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Jonah and Ricky ate at Àclèaf in Plymouth.
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• This article was amended on 30 December 2022. Ricky is a retired university lecturer, not a retired university professor as an earlier version said.
