Bruno, 45, Liverpool
Occupation Communications and marketing manager, and a film curator and programmer
Voting record Can only vote in local elections, as an EU citizen; votes Labour
Amuse bouche Has an international certification as a wine taster. He’s noticed that people who smoke struggle a bit. Beyond that, anybody can be trained to enjoy wine in a different way
Michael, 55, Liverpool
Occupation Paramedic by training; currently on sick leave
Voting record Recently spoiled his ballot paper, but if he had voted, it would have been for Reform
Amuse bouche Was trained in sailing by the Royal Navy as a reservist – or “part‑time puddle pirate”. Used to work as a yacht skipper in Greece
For starters
Bruno I was expecting a very hardcore ideological approach from Michael, and we had an active discussion. He was very polite and quite open.
Michael Bruno looked like a professional businessman. I was just smart casual, he was more suited and booted.
Bruno I had octopus salad, braised beef and a creme brulee.
Michael I had chicken paté, then beef.
The big beef
Bruno I didn’t feel he had anything against me, personally, coming here from Portugal. He used that sad argument about infrastructure, that the UK doesn’t have enough for everybody who wants to come in. He talked about shared values, that people coming in can’t live in a bubble. This is a dangerous discourse; I can’t relate to it. I shared the experience we have in Portugal. We have a lot of diversity because of the former colonies; it’s perfectly possible to manage this without populism.
Michael We’ve had far too much immigration over a short period. Britain is not a big country – you can only have a certain number of people per square mile; after that you might as well live in Hong Kong. We see countryside getting destroyed to build new housing or to put wind turbines on. It’s not just railways and roads, the NHS is getting slaughtered. I don’t think it’s successive governments running down the NHS, it’s because there are too many patients.
Bruno Maybe we have A&E full of people who probably shouldn’t be there, but the responsibility is with the system to have more GPs, health centres – to shift people from hospitals.
Michael When I was a child, you never saw an ambulance on the road. They only came out to people who were dying. People had self-respect and self-sufficiency. If they could make their own way, they would.
Sharing plate
Bruno Brexit was interesting: he said he voted leave, and he thinks it was the right decision. But he acknowledges that the UK is worse now than it was before, the Conservative government didn’t make things happen as they should have. So he’s ambivalent, and we agreed on that part.
Michael Britain joined what was once the European Economic Community. Over time, that morphed into this behemoth called the EU. I perceived it as a fundamentally anti-democratic system. What’s the point of me voting for a member of parliament to represent me, if we’ve got a bunch of unelected people overriding our sovereignty?
Bruno One more thing we actually agreed upon: there was probably a solution to the sovereignty question, that wasn’t about leaving or staying. The UK could have stayed in the EU with different rules.
Michael I still think Brexit was an opportunity wasted, and part of that is down to the inertia of bureaucracies. There were people in the civil service trying to scupper government plans.
For afters
Michael I was in a very obscure branch of the Navy that dealt with merchant shipping. People in the west were seeing this humanitarian crisis in Gaza in the early 2000s, saying, “They’ve got no medicines, food, building materials.” Hamas had building material, all right. But they were building tunnels.
Bruno He blamed Hamas for what is happening in Gaza, but in the end, he wasn’t able to disagree with me about the humanitarian concerns. He didn’t try to convince me of things, and that was very refreshing. And I don’t know if I convinced him, but in the end, it’s hard for someone to say, “I don’t have any humanitarian concerns.”
Takeaways
Bruno I think he feels marginalised, and so he’s come to a very nationalist view: Britain for the Brits.
Michael He seems a genuine, switched-on bloke. I think we’ve got a lot more common ground than disagreements.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Bruno and Michael ate at Wreck Bistro in Liverpool.
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