Jonathan, 43, Warwick
Occupation Transformation and strategy manager
Voting record Conservative in 2019, and previously, in Australia, voted for the conservative Liberal party
Amuse bouche Is a notorious hobby starter, and has a hobby graveyard, where all his hobbies have gone to die
Liam, 61, Warwick
Occupation Retired customs adviser
Voting record Labour since 1979 – with a peg on his nose under Blair; without the peg under Corbyn
Amuse bouche With his brother, produced one of the first party political broadcasts shown on TV for Sinn Féin
For starters
Liam He was dressed quite conservatively, but I hate judging people on the way they dress.
Jonathan He was conscious of other people painting him as a sandal-wearing dirty lefty. I wouldn’t be so arrogant as to judge a book by its cover.
Liam I had the vegetable soup, and a white fish stew with garlic bread.
Jonathan I had a lovely baked camembert and a sirloin steak. Liam announced as I ordered it that he was a vegetarian, so I made sure he was comfortable with me eating a hunk of meat, and he was.
The big beef
Jonathan The core topic was: why did Labour lose the 2019 election? I’m a real pragmatist. First you win power, because then you get to prosecute your agenda. You don’t play bullshit games and you don’t put up a candidate who’s universally assumed to be unelectable. I challenged Liam on this and he was a little bit squirrelly – in a lovely way, because he’s a lovely guy.
Liam He felt Corbyn should have changed or watered down his ideas. I disagree. Corbyn was a man of principle. The irony is that Labour’s manifestos in 2017 and 2019 weren’t radical compared with most European countries. They were quite moderate.
Jonathan People didn’t like him as a guy. Why put someone up who you know the public don’t like? Liam’s view was that nobody else wanted to take leadership and it was Corbyn’s turn. He took one for the team.
Liam It wasn’t about Corbyn, the man. He had weaknesses, but it was his ideas and the movement he inspired that the establishment were afraid of. That’s why he keeps coming up. If they didn’t fear him, they wouldn’t denigrate him the way they do.
Jonathan He’s a bit of a conspiracy theorist, is our Liam, and he would freely admit that himself.
Sharing plate
Liam I voted remain. Because of my job – I was a trade compliance manager – I was involved in the day-to-day workings of importing and exporting. When I was talking about Brexit to my friends, they didn’t have a clue about free trade agreements, tariffs, exporting goods. He did mention the sovereignty thing, the fact that the UK can now do what it wishes to do. But I always ask the question, “What can we do now that we couldn’t do before?”
Jonathan I think he was expecting me to have voted leave. He pictured me as a stereotypical Tory. I wasn’t in the country at the time, so I don’t have licence to comment. But if the vote was held today, I would vote remain, because there are too many good reasons to remain connected to an admittedly imperfect bloc. It doesn’t seem logical to disconnect yourself.
For afters
Liam We agreed on global warming. Despite his centre-right position, he agrees that we need to do something quickly, but he was less radical than me. He felt that politicians also had children and grandchildren, and that would prevent them from doing anything silly. I disagree. I think we’re being governed by crazy people, and it’s straight out of Dr Strangelove.
Jonathan He’s a pessimist and I’m an optimist. That was a pretty consistent thread that ran throughout our conversations. I’m confident that, when humanity’s back is against the wall, the best of humanity will prevail. Liam was basically ready to give up and let the rising sea level wash him away and end his existence.
Takeaways
Liam I think his worldview has been conditioned by the media, and that’s his spectrum of debate. He’d never heard of Noam Chomsky!
Jonathan I think he’s a lovely guy. I’d love to meet again – have part two or three, putting the world to rights.
Additional reporting: Sarah Hooper
• Jonathan and Liam ate at The Cape of Good Hope, Warwick
Want to meet someone from across the divide? Find out how to take part
