Carlos, 56, Madrid
Occupation MD of the Spanish branch of a multinational consulting firm
Voting record Conservative People’s party (PP), but did once vote for the Spanish Socialist Workers’ party (PSOE)
Amuse bouche Loves fixing all things mechanical and has seven motorbikes – and a Jaguar XJS he brought from London, where he lived for five years
Susana, 50, Madrid
Occupation English teacher
Voting record Always to the left – for the Spanish Communist party and the PSOE – but didn’t vote in the last year’s general election due to not feeling represented
Amuse bouche Lived in Merseyside for five years and visits the UK every summer
For starters
Susana There was a lot of theatre! It was a stream of little plates: Chinese aubergine with herring; squid that they did at the table with a blowtorch; there was meat that you could fry yourself, and pea ice-cream. It was delicious.
Carlos It was a bit of everything: fish, meat, pudding. The food was great.
The big beef
Susana Carlos agrees that there are still enduring sexist biases in Spain, but thinks we’ve left behind an era that was really sexist. We talked about the Luis Rubiales and Jenni Hermoso case. Carlos said he thought what happened was horrible, but that it had been very exaggerated. I agree, but I also think it will serve as a precedent and show there are consequences for things that used to be done very freely.
Carlos We have come from a historically sexist culture, but I think the pendulum has swung too far now into an extraordinarily feminist culture. Interestingly, we agreed that radical, extreme feminism is bad for both women and men, and that we need a feminism that seeks real equality.
Susana Carlos said the women in his firm are paid as much as the men, but that’s far from the norm in many companies. I told him that in most jobs I know, women are paid less than men and hold fewer senior positions. In 90% of cases I know of, it’s the woman who stays at home to look after the kids when they’re ill, and who takes them to school. At the end of the day, it’s the woman who sacrifices her career. I think these are sexist hangovers that we need to move past.
Carlos We talked about certain jobs. I said, “Look, Susana, if my house is on fire, I want a firefighter who’s going to be able to pick me up and get me out of there. Maybe a woman couldn’t do that.” She said she totally agreed.
Sharing plate
Susana He said the Valley of the Fallen monument, which was built by Franco after his victory in the Spanish civil war, shouldn’t be demolished because it represents part of our history. I suggested it should be made into a kind of museum where what happened is explained historically and objectively.
Carlos The problem we both identified was that if you do transform it into a place of remembrance, it has to be a totally neutral centre; it can’t be skewed or biased towards the left or the right. That’s the really tricky bit, because whoever you get to do it is going to have a bias.
For afters
Carlos We need immigration, but it has to be people who come to work and not to enjoy the welfare state. It has to be organised migration. Spain has a huge opportunity because of all the people who want to come from Latin America and work: nurses, doctors, etc. We need to tackle the other kind of immigration, when people aren’t coming to work and aren’t bringing anything.
Susana My worry is what happens when you get mass migration because of a war or a famine or a drought. Where will those people go? A lot of people are migrating because conditions in their country are so inhumane that they’ll go anywhere they can. I don’t think a person who risks death by scaling a really high fence or crossing a river is doing that purely to get some of our money.
Carlos Things have to be done to stop migration in the countries of origin. If you give people in Nigeria opportunities, some will stop coming here. It’s not just a Spanish problem; it’s a problem that affects all of Europe.
Takeaways
Susana It was very pleasant. We’re from different sides politically, but we’re both very moderate.
Carlos Neither of us is a crazed radical, but we both learned something – I wasn’t aware of that enduring, if slight, sense of sexism until she told me about it. We could have been friends who’d known each other for 20 years.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Susana and Carlos ate at Sala de Despiece in Madrid
Want to meet someone from across the divide? Find out how to take part
