With 2024 confirmed as the hottest year on record, pressure is mounting on all countries to step up their climate commitments. In just over six months, world leaders will convene in Brazil for Cop30. Its president, André Corrêa do Lago, has warned the era of empty promises is over, but despite divisions and the US pulling out of the Paris Agreement, he still believes the summit can deliver.
RFI: We are living through a time of conflict – wars are increasing, economies are in turmoil and the US, the world’s biggest historical polluter, has left the Paris Agreement. Can climate cooperation survive?
André Correa do Lago: Brazil believes that everything must be done to strengthen multilateralism at Cop30. We think international cooperation is the only way to fight global warming. Over the next six months, all our efforts will focus on dialogue. As you said, we are going through a political crisis – but there is also a crisis of trust, especially in climate talks.
This distrust affects the private sector too. Some still ask if investing in climate action is wise. I believe it is. In Brazil, this view is fully supported by our finance ministry. This is an agenda that can speed up development in the Global South and make a real difference to people’s lives. We will need to convince others, and that won’t be easy, but the coming months will be devoted to this.
RFI: Attacks on science are also growing. The role of the IPCC, which advises decision-makers, is being questioned. How do you respond? What can be done?
CDL: I think this backlash against science has eased a little. Last year, we saw so many climate-related disasters around the world that it is now very hard to deny the reality of global warming. The big challenge now isn’t to prove climate change exists – it’s to show we can really act to slow it down. That means convincing governments, people and businesses that climate action can help the economy and improve lives.
I understand the doubts. We see in Europe how these debates can affect elections. So we must be careful how we communicate, we cannot just frighten people without offering solutions. It would be a huge success if Cop30 could show real solutions across the board. I believe it can. Technology is moving fast, there are plenty of ideas, and we now have solutions that suit different realities.
It used to be thought there was only one path to meet climate goals. Today we know there are many. Each country and region can follow its own path, and we must respect that. We cannot impose one size fits all solutions that are too costly or unworkable. In democracies like Brazil or France, you need to win elections too. That’s why our message must lead to real, visible actions.
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RFI: Very few countries have submitted their new, more ambitious climate plans, which were due in February. Cop30 depends on these. What are you expecting and when?
CDL: A new deadline has been set – most countries must present their Nationally Determined Contributions, or NDCs, before September. We will then analyse whether their efforts are enough to stay well below 2C of warming, and as close as possible to 1.5C.
Once we have that analysis, we must sit down together and see what more can be done. 1.5C is not just a target – it’s already very high, and we are already feeling the effects. We must avoid levels of warming that would threaten life on Earth. The planet is not at risk – it’s humanity that is. It’s our impact on nature that is the problem, and it’s still possible to change this.
RFI: For a climate plan to be truly ambitious, shouldn’t it clearly call for the end of fossil fuels? This is a sensitive issue and not often mentioned in your speeches. Isn’t this at the heart of the problem?
CDL: The sentence on ending fossil fuels was already accepted by all countries at Cop28 in Dubai. It doesn’t need to be repeated in every speech. What matters now is not intentions, but action. The international consensus is clear – we must move away from fossil fuels. Each country now needs to prepare for that transition in its own way. Energy situations vary greatly between countries. But at the core, there is no doubt: fossil fuels are still the main issue.
RFI: Yet Brazil continues to invest in oil and is opening new oil fields. Isn’t that a contradiction?
CDL: That’s very debatable. Brazil didn’t have oil until quite recently – our biggest discoveries were in the 1990s. We are new to the group of oil-producing countries. The key for all countries is that the energy transition must protect economic stability. You cannot create transitions that cause harm.
Such shocks would bring immediate political fallout. If energy prices rise, if problems mount, it affects people’s lives… and governments getting re-elected. Each country has its own path to carbon neutrality. Brazil may have to keep using oil for some time. Look at Germany – it had to go back to coal partly because of the war in Ukraine. These are real-world issues.
Brazil has already said it aims for carbon neutrality by 2050. That is a clear goal. But how we get there is still being debated – as it should be, in a democracy with a free press. Take the possible oil field in northern Amazonia. People talk a lot about it, but we don’t even know for sure if oil is there. The country must deal with this responsibly, discussing how to use those resources. I think Brazil will have a very lively debate about this, both this year and in the years ahead.
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RFI: China has been the world’s top greenhouse gas emitter for several years, but it isn’t seen as a historical polluter. What role do you see for China in today’s troubled world?
CDL: It’s true, China is not historically responsible for climate change. Its industrial growth really took off in the second half of the 20th century, like Brazil’s. But China has grown massively in recent decades and still uses a lot of coal, we all know that. Still, we must recognise that China is also a leader in renewable energy. It has made electric vehicles more available worldwide at competitive prices.
It cut the cost of solar panels by 90 percent, a huge help for global climate solutions. Yes, its emissions remain high – and Chinese leaders know this, they admit it. But it’s also the country offering the most solutions right now. Climate change brings huge risks but also huge opportunities through technology. It’s vital to focus on what each country is doing in its own economy. China is key, both in lowering its emissions and providing affordable tech to others.
RFI: Cop29 in Baku was frustrating for many countries in the Global South, which need funding to make the climate transition. How can the billions needed be raised? Without this money, some countries might offer weaker plans or none at all. How do we find the money?
CDL: Finance is absolutely central. Most developing countries face many challenges at once. Europe could deal with things step by step – education first, then healthcare, then infrastructure, then transport. But developing countries must do all this at the same time while also fighting climate change. Justice means understanding that the countries who caused most of the CO2 must help others develop with climate at the centre. These countries need a model that tackles huge problems but keeps climate as a key part of growth. This is complex but vital – for them and for the planet.
RFI: Some wonder if developed countries will really pay up without the world’s biggest economy, now that the US has left the Paris deal?
CDL: Of course, the US leaving is a serious concern. I understand why other rich countries worry. If only developed countries are meant to pay, the US pullout makes it harder. But we must see climate finance more broadly. At Cop29 in Baku, Brazil and Azerbaijan proposed raising funds from $300 billion to $1,300bn. That sounds huge, but it shows how big the climate problem is for the world economy.
We are working on a plan to show how to move forward, from point A to point B. We must stop thinking of climate funds as something separate. Climate must be at the heart of all development, investment and finance decisions. This will mean a major shift in our thinking and habits, but it’s essential for the climate transition. I hope we can present something realistic and positive in Belém at Cop30.
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RFI: Forests are called the lungs of the planet, and they will be a major issue at Cop30 in the Amazon. You are launching a fund to protect them. But will just another fund be enough?
CDL: That’s a great question. The fund Brazil is offering is very different. It guarantees investors at least 3 percent return per year. It’s not like other funds where people see no return. This fund is very innovative and targets the specific problem of forest conservation. There are many ways to manage forests, and sadly some are negative, like deforestation.
Tools like REDD+ (Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation) already exist and have worked well, especially in Brazil. Restoring forests is hugely positive for fighting global warming, and it needs its own funding system. Carbon markets are part of this. We already have good REDD+ projects to stop deforestation. But until now, there was nothing to support untouched forests, and that’s what we are offering. We aim to raise $125bn. We are looking at other ways to get money for tropical forests too.
This will be a key issue at Cop30 in Belém. But, worldwide, deforestation causes less than 10 percent of emissions – fossil fuels must still be the main focus. In Brazil, deforestation is still our biggest source of emissions. We have already cut deforestation by more than 50 percent in two years. Still, there is a lot to do to support local people in places like the Amazon, while keeping forests safe.
The Amazon is incredibly complex. As someone from Rio de Janeiro, I can tell you that in the past, the Amazon was often managed without understanding local realities. Old development plans, even ones backed by the World Bank, didn’t fully grasp the Amazon’s challenges. Today, we have much more science and research on the Amazon. We also have Brazilian institutions working hard on this. It’s crucial to talk with other tropical countries.
There are more than 65 developing countries with tropical forests, and they need to come together to build shared strategies. These forests must keep helping fight global warming, while the people who live there, as they have for thousands of years, can keep their way of life. These communities are showing us something very important – we can live peacefully with nature. Sadly, most modern societies have lost that ability.
