In a presidential contest that has left heads spinning, one truth has remained unchanged: it’s the economy, stupid. Poll after poll shows that economic concerns are the top priority for voters following a pandemic-fueled recession and the high inflation that accompanied the nation’s recovery.
Despite a mixed economic record as chief executive, Donald Trump has benefited from public angst over high prices and interest rates. And though recent polling indicates that Kamala Harris is closing the gap on whom Americans trust more around the economy, the election may very well come down to whether Harris can further erode Trump’s lead on this core issue. While the vice president in August released economic proposals including a major expansion of federal housing aid and regulation of grocery price-gouging, she has yet to flesh out a full plan.
Harris may want to steal a page from the playbook of Bernie Sanders, whose populist economic agenda led to surprisingly tight primary races with both Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Joe Biden in 2020. Sanders delivered a rousing speech at the Democratic National Convention, saying “much more remains to be done” to “stand up to wealth and power and deliver justice.” In an interview with Capital & Main last week, the Vermont senator spoke about how Harris can appeal to the working-class voters who may decide the election.
This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Capital & Main: You’re urging Kamala Harris and other Democrats to run on a progressive economic agenda that you believe appeals to Democrats, Republicans, independents, and even longtime Trump supporters. What policies do you think Harris should endorse before the election that are not in the economic plan that she has announced?
Bernie Sanders: It’s not what I believe, it’s what the facts are and what the polling shows. Poll after poll shows that on a number of issues, the American people overwhelmingly want government action, and the opposition to that action often comes from lobbyists and big-money interests who are more concerned about their own greed than they are about the needs of the American people. So, for example, during Build Back Better, we worked hard to try to get Medicare to cover dental, vision and hearing. That’s enormously popular — 77% of the American people support that. The American people are more than aware that we pay by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs, and in fairness for the Biden administration, we have made some progress in that area, but they want to go much further.
In the House of Representatives, you’ve got about 80% of the Republicans who are on board to cut Social Security in one way or another — raise the retirement age, cut benefits, whatever. Meanwhile, what the American people understand is that the funding mechanism for Social Security today is extremely regressive. If you make $16 million a year, you’re paying the same amount into the Social Security Trust Fund as somebody who makes $160,000. If you lift that cap, you can increase Social Security benefits by about $2,400 a year, which is really important. A quarter of our seniors are living on $15,000 or less, and you can extend the solvency of Social Security by 75 years. Raising taxes on the rich is very popular.
“Expanding Medicare … cutting prescription drugs in half … expanding Social Security …. those are some of the ideas I would hope that Kamala will be speaking about.”
Kamala Harris has not at this point endorsed those policies. Which of those do you think she should support before the election that would have the widespread appeal you described?
The truth is you have more income and wealth inequality today than we’ve ever had. People on top are doing phenomenally well, but the effect of tax rates for billionaires is often lower than it is for truck drivers and nurses. Demanding that the very rich start paying their fair share of taxes is important, and I think she has been talking about that. And by the way, you may have noticed just the other day a piece in the New York Times, and I’m quoting from the headline, “Donors Quietly Push Harris to Drop Tax on Ultrawealthy.”
How can she push back on them without losing their support, which could be pivotal in a close election?
Well, look, then you’re getting into a whole broader issue of money and politics, and it’s what my more moderate and conservative Democrats will tell you — “Hey, we got to do what we can to attract all the money that we need.” Well, money is important, no illusions otherwise. But on the other hand, you’ve got to start appealing to people and getting people excited, and people understand that we have a system today which has massive inequalities. Three people owning more wealth than half of American society is unacceptable. So I think you’re going to have to make that choice, but I think standing up for working families and getting those votes may be more important than just having to incur the love of some billionaires who can contribute to your campaign.
But also, above and beyond that, I think issues like expanding Medicare. Many elderly people just can’t afford the dental care or the hearing aids they need. And that’s an issue that is, again, enormously popular. Cutting prescription drugs in half so we don’t pay the highest prices in the world, enormously popular. Expanding Social Security. Those are some of the ideas I would hope that Kamala will be speaking about.
Inflation was low under Trump, as were unemployment and poverty. How does Harris deal with voters’ anger and concern and convince them that she will do more for them on economic issues than Trump?
Well, I think she is off to a good start in a couple of respects. To be frank with you, I think Congress has not paid anywhere near enough attention to the affordable housing crisis that exists from coast to coast. So talking about the need to build millions of units of affordable housing, I think that’s exactly the right thing to do. I think it’s popular. I think it’s very good policy. I think making it easier for first-time homeowners to be able to own their own home, enormously important. I think making it clear that Wall Street private investment firms that are owning more and more housing in America cannot jack up their rents above a certain level is also very important.
Second of all, common sense is saying that we’ve got to control what these large supermarkets are charging and their record-breaking profits as they jack up prices. And by the way, I think in order to implement those policies of breaking up mergers and controlling the greed of monopolies, you’re going to need a very strong Federal Trade Commission. And I happen to believe that the chair of the FTC today, Lina Khan, is doing a spectacular job. I think she is the best chair that we’ve had in a very, very, very long time in taking on monopolies and price gouging. So if the vice president wins and is going to be successful in controlling the greed of the food industry or the housing industry and other industries, she’s going to need somebody like Lina Khan and the FTC.
“What Trump is doing is playing to the anger and the resentment that many working-class people feel, and that resentment and anger is justified in many respects.”
You mentioned Lina Khan, and it reminds me that Joe Biden pursued with that appointment, many other appointments, many other policies, what is generally seen as the most progressive economic agenda certainly since LBJ and maybe since FDR. Why didn’t these policies translate into greater political support?
I do believe that Biden’s domestic policy has been the most progressive since LBJ and FDR. I think that the Biden administration has not been as effective as they might have been in conveying all that they have done. And I think a lot of the American people just don’t know some of the things that they have done in terms of rebuilding our infrastructure or dealing with climate change or forgiving the student debt of 5 million Americans.
I think they have made some good progress in making it clear that they have, for the first time ever, taken on the greed of the pharmaceutical industry, and now we are, in fact, negotiating prices with the drug industry. I think he has been as strong as any president in American history in indicating his support of unions. So I think the record is strong. I think they probably could have done a better job in communicating that record.
Most unions have endorsed Harris, but Trump has done well with union voters, particularly in 2016, but also in 2020, in key swing states such as Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan. How do you think Harris can persuade union voters that they’ll gain more from Harris than from Trump?
Look, what Trump is doing is playing to the anger and the resentment that many working-class people feel, and that resentment and anger is justified in many respects. With inflation accounted, real wages have not gone up for 50 years. Millions of good-paying jobs were lost because of disastrous trade policies. But I think what we have got to do is make it clear that Trump is a phony, he is a fraud. And I think people like Shawn Fain have made that clear. Joe Biden was out on a picket line supporting striking workers while Donald Trump was laughing with Elon Musk on Twitter about firing, illegally, by the way, workers who are out on strike. Biden has appointed a very strong National Labor Relations Board to protect workers. Trump had anti-labor people in those same positions.
So what we’ve got to do is do two things: No. 1, expose Trump for the fraud that he is, and B, develop an agenda for working-class people and trade unionists that will be very much in contrast with Trump. For example, right now, support for trade unions in America is probably at the highest that it’s been for a very, very long time. I think the last poll had 70% of the people supporting unions. And yet if you were in a company right now and you wanted to organize a union, it would be very difficult because many companies will use union-busting consultants.
And what I would hope Kamala Harris will stress … is very stiff penalties for corporations that engage in illegal behavior that prevents workers from organizing. And I think raising the minimum wage is another. We are at $7.25 an hour [for the federal] minimum wage, which is clearly a starvation wage. So raising the minimum wage to a living wage will improve wages for many millions of lower-income Americans.
“Young people are deeply concerned that, everything being equal, they may have a lower standard of living than their parents, despite huge increases in worker productivity.”
You were an independent until 2015 and much of your appeal came from young voters.
Danny, I am an independent. I’ve always run as an independent.
OK, correct the record on that. A lot of the support among young voters came from them seeing you as challenging the Democratic Party’s status quo. How do you think that Harris specifically can win over younger voters who are dissatisfied with the Democratic Party, beyond any of the specific policy proposals we’ve discussed so far?
Well, look, I think we never spent one second or one penny trying to figure out in our campaigns what young people wanted; we never polled them. I think you just speak truth to power and you come up with an agenda. Clearly, young people are deeply concerned that, everything being equal, they may have a lower standard of living than their parents, despite huge increases in worker productivity. So what are you going to do? You got to say, “I’m on the side of working people and we have an agenda that will improve your lives.”
Young people are very, very concerned. You go to talk to young people who will tell you that they may not have babies because of the concern about climate change. So you’ve got to take on the greed of the fossil fuel industry, who are putting their short-term profits ahead of the survival of the planet, and be very strong and clear on that. That is how you win young people.
I think the vice president has been strong on this, on issues of bigotry, whether it is racism or sexism or homophobia or xenophobia, and you’ve got to be strong on that. I think young people are idealistic. They want to see this country become what they believe it can become, a society which is equitable based on social justice, having a foreign policy which reflects traditional American values, which then takes you to the war in Gaza, where young people, as most Americans, are very opposed to the humanitarian disaster that [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu is causing there. So I don’t think there’s any magical formula. You talk to the real issues and I think young people and many people in general will respond positively.
Would you like to see Harris speak more about climate, an issue that clearly resonates with young voters and the oldest voters?
The short answer is yes. And, again, I think it’s good politics. If you watched the debate with Biden, and Trump was asked about climate change, he completely skirted the question, because I think he’s embarrassed maybe to say on a widely watched national program, a debate, what his views are. And his views are: Climate change is a hoax initiated in China, created in China. That’s his view. There’s not one scientist in the world who agrees with Donald Trump on that, and the overwhelming majority of the American people do not agree with him on that.
His proposals on climate are not only based on ignorance, but also are working in the benefit of his financial contributors from the fossil fuel industry. So it is self-serving and ignorant as well, but I think you make it clear that the future of the planet and well-being of our kids and future generations rest on addressing this crisis. I think it’s a contrast that works well politically for the vice president.
Trump is targeting Harris and the Democrats on immigration. How do you think Harris should respond to this attack without sacrificing the basic principles of justice and the rights of immigrants?
I think you’ve got to recognize that the border issue in the south, and by the way I hear about it in the north as well, is a real issue. People are not comfortable, for good reasons, about people coming into this country illegally. So I think what you need to do is couple that with what people are comfortable with, and that is a comprehensive immigration approach, which recognizes that the DACA kids deserve to have citizenship.
And I can tell you right now, in many parts of this country we have a massive labor shortage and our economy is suffering as a result of that. So understanding that we want an immigration system that is fair, that is based on justice, that controls the border, that brings in workers who we need, that will help us with our economy, I think is the overall approach that we need.
