Having spent the first 30 years of her career reporting on news and politics, Walkley-winning journalist Leigh Sales is enjoying a change of pace.
She hosted ABC's 7.30 for 12 years, quit in 2022, took a six-month break and returned to our television screens in 2023 as host of the Logie-winning Australian Story.
And now she is hosting a new six-part series, The Assembly, which premieres on ABC TV on Tuesday, August 20.
Based on the French series of the same name, The Assembly gives autistic journalism students the opportunity to interview high-profile individuals. Actors Sam Neill, radio and television personalities Amanda Keller and Hamish Blake, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, singer-songwriter Delta Goodrem and Brownlow Medallist Adam Goodes agreed to participate.
The students, mentored by Sales, can ask any questions they like. It's a fresh, funny and poignant take on the traditional interview format that reveals the real person behind the public figure.
"It's been a joy to work on it, I've just loved it," says Sales of The Assembly.
The series was produced in partnership with Aspect, an Australian service provider for people on the autism spectrum; Macquarie University, who developed and taught Australia's first journalism course for autistic people; and Bus Stop Films, which helps people with disabilities find acting, presenting and film-making opportunities.
Any question can be asked without prior warning. Anything.
"You can imagine my pitch to the Prime Minister: 'Prime Minister, would you like to come in and be interviewed by 15 autistic people simultaneously and I'll have limited control over the situation and you'll be there for an hour and they can ask you whatever they want?'," Sales says, laughing.
"It's not the world's most appealing pitch to a politician.
"The students did a practice interview on me and it's quite an intimidating experience because you're literally going to get asked anything, and also, they don't respond like a normal interviewer - someone might start singing, or react audibly, so it's really quite an unusual experience."
Not only were the questions unorthodox, so too was the wording and the method of delivery. Sometimes the student asking the question would be struggling to get it out because they felt shy, or overwhelmed.
"The questions would elicit the most incredible responses," Sales says.
"One of the women, Savannah, asked Amanda Keller, 'Do you love your husband?'. Now, you or I would never ask that question in an interview, but Amanda's lovely husband Harley has got Parkinson's disease and so it's very fresh in Amanda's mind how much she loves him because he's unwell.
"And there was another one that was just hilarious, where Dylan asked Hamish Blake 'How much money do you have in dollars and cents?'. Hamish said to me afterwards, 'The difference between being asked that by anyone in this group and by a regular journo is there's no agenda. It's just pure curiosity'. They ask what they're interested in, and it's awesome to watch."
She also mentions an interaction that left her speechless and close to tears.
"Dylan was preparing for Delta Goodrem, and I said 'What do you think you might like to ask Delta?' and he said 'I would like to know what it feels like to be confident' and honestly, I thought I was going to have to walk off set.
"It was so affecting that this young guy didn't know what confidence felt like. Dylan wasn't emotional when he asked it, he was just curious. Sometimes I got pole-axed by the simplest of questions."
The enthusiasm in her voice as she speaks about the series and its participants suggests Sales does not regret leaving the cut-throat world of political journalism behind. She agrees.
"A lot of us who are drawn to journalism find people really interesting, and that's the thing I most like about my job, but I think I'd forgotten that. I'd done 30 years in hard news and in daily news, and not having my life dictated by the daily news cycle is fantastic," she says.
"I get to immerse myself in really interesting people stories outside of the structure of news reporting, whether it's at Australian Story or with The Assembly, and it's exhilarating and rejuvenating, to be honest."
Sales grew up in Brisbane and started her reporting career in Queensland in 1993 with Channel Nine. She was the network's Washington correspondent from 2001 to 2006, anchored ABC TV's Lateline from 2008 to 2010, and joined 7.30 in 2011.
Sales, who has three Walkley awards to her name and was awarded an Order of Australia in 2019 for her services to journalism, tells me she's excited about people getting to see her Australian Story interview with musician Nick Cage on Monday night.
Times have changed, her priorities have changed, and she is relishing new opportunities.
"It's not like 7.30 where I had to fill half an hour every day, now I only do big interviews or things that I know are going to be really impactful," she says.
I ask her about her friend and colleague Lisa Millar, who last month announced her retirement as co-host of ABC News Breakfast to focus on other series such as Muster Dogs and Backroads.
"Lisa and I have talked a lot about it because we have been such good friends for nearly 30 years, both of us being in daily news that whole time," she replies.
"I kept saying to Lisa 'Come in, the water's warm, it's fine!'
"As a news reporter, your whole life is structured by it. You get up and you check what's in the news, you're expecting your phone to ring if there's a big story ... it's more a way of life. It can be a bit intimidating to do something different, but I'm finding that I'm really, really liking being out of that space. It's a nice phase and I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
"When I was young I thought there was nothing more exciting than my phone ringing out of the blue and my chief of staff saying 'There's been a murder suicide in Dubbo, the chopper's on the pad and you've gotta go straight out there', whereas now that's my idea of hell. That stuff's really exciting for a younger person, I think."
Australian Story has been nominated for two Logie awards this year: Best Current Affairs Program, and Best News Coverage or Public Affairs Report for A Silver Lining: Silverchair. Sales is thrilled, but won't be attending the awards ceremony later this month. She has a prior commitment with one of her children.
"I don't think I have ever worked with a group of people who care so much about the people in their stories," she says. "The attention to detail, the dedication ... an incredible group of people work on that show."
