Entertainment icon and ABC’s "Abbott Elementary" star Sheryl Lee Ralph has a unique opportunity to use her role as Mrs. Howard to both highlight the role education has played in her upbringing and shed a light on our nation's real MVPs, public school teachers.
“She's a lifelong learner,” Ralph said of her character Mrs. Howard during our conversation for "Salon Talks." “She represents so many teachers in my lifetime. My dad, a lifelong learner, an educator. My mom, an educator in fashion. My Auntie Carolyn, a Blue-Ribbon teacher turned principal. I'm surrounded by them. They've been a part of who I am.”
On "Abbott," now in its fourth season, Ralph stars as Mrs. Barbara Howard in the mockumentary sitcom created by Quinta Brunson. She is a veteran kindergarten teacher who is sharp enough to train a new generation of educators, but also wise enough to know that she can learn from them as well.
I had plenty of teachers like Mrs. Howard during my formative years growing up in East Baltimore. I think of teachers like my 10th grade social studies teacher Mrs. Tarter. My friends and I had developed a reputation at the school for dismantling any form of classroom structure. Mrs. Tarter knew this and still welcomed us with open arms because she knew we were no match for her.
We came into her world of structure ready to play around and she instantly separated us and promised to remove those of us who wouldn’t comply. This went on for a week or so. Some of us, including me, were booted and came back, only to be booted again. We still had some play in us by the end of week two, which is when she broke out her master-veteran-teacher experience — what I'll call her inner Mrs. Howard.
“Mr. Watkins, don’t leave,” Mrs. Tarter said, separating me from my rambunctious friend group who continued down the hall, “You know the work. You are smart, you are a leader. I can’t say the same for the company you keep. I don’t understand why you are risking your future on meaningless jokes, but hey, it’s your life.” She didn’t scold me, belittle me or force me to pick sides. Mrs. Tarter simply spotted my insecurity, my need to fit in, and asked if it was worth it. It wasn’t, so I listened to her, got serious about my work and have been carving out my own path, my own way, ever since.
Ralph understands the long-held importance of teachers like Mrs. Tarter and their ability to inspire. "She's always existed in our community, in our life, in our church." Ralph said. "It used to be, 'What were Black people going to do in order to get ahead?' You were going to either really push the limits and become a doctor, you were really going to push the limits and become a lawyer, or you were going to push the limits to become an educator. That was the way into their excellence."
Ralph found her way into excellence through theater, where she earned a Tony nomination for best actress in a musical for her role as Deena Jones in the original "Dreamgirls" on Broadway and as Madame Morrible in "Wicked." She has also won an Emmy for her work on "Abbott" and was key to the show winning a Peabody Award.
Watch my "Salon Talks" episode with Sheryl Lee Ralph here or read a Q&A of our conversation below to hear more about her love for producing and classic movies, her best parenting tip and what's next on "Abbott Elementary."
The following conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Everyone's excited about the fourth season of “Abbott Elementary.” With all of the show’s success, are you used to the praise now or does it still feel fresh?
It's always fresh for me. People don't have to praise you. People don't have to give you accolades. When we continue to get it, it is because we continue to give our audience the best that we have. Our writers are outstanding, our producers are outstanding. Our creator of the show, Quinta Brunson, outstanding. The cast of people put together, outstanding. We are what excellence looks like.
What have you pulled from your personal life to add to the character of Ms. Howard?
I love Mrs. Howard. Mrs. Howard is one of those characters, she's going to push you. She expects great things from you, even in kindergarten and I love that about her. She also continues to expect good things from herself. She's always learning, and I love those episodes when she steps back, looks at where she is and tells you what it is she's learned. I love that. She's a lifelong learner. She represents so many teachers in my lifetime. My dad, a lifelong learner, an educator. My mom, an educator in fashion. My Auntie Carolyn, a Blue Ribbon teacher turned principal. I'm surrounded by them. They've been a part of who I am.
Do you think a character like Ms. Howard could exist in Hollywood 20 or 30 years ago?
She's always existed in our community, in our life, in our church. It used to be, what were Black people going to do in order to get ahead? You were going to either really push the limits and become a doctor, you were really going to push the limits and become a lawyer, or you were going to push the limits to become an educator. That was the way into their excellence. So could she exist? She has existed.
I remember there was an old film with Harry Belafonte and Dorothy Dandridge called “Bright Road” about young Black educators. I remember when I was younger, much younger, there was a series called “Room 222” about Black educators, and then there was “Welcome Back, Kotter.” There have always been educators with a difference and of color, but none like Barbara Howard.
She's the best. I've had real Mrs. Howards in my life, that's how we make it. That's why I'm here.
With her believing in you, with her telling you, "Don't give up on your dream. In fact, your dream is too small. Dream bigger!" Yeah, that's Barbara Howard.
I love the fact also that Barbara Howard is hanging in there. We're now in a time where they're asking teachers to stay longer, to consider “rewirement” instead of retirement, so that they can continue to be there to create the excellence that is needed for younger teachers to come behind them. And to be able to have that sort of stamina and desire to do that, I love that about her as well.
Have you pulled from your experiences being a parent to play Ms. Howard?
I think my children would always say that I'm also a teacher. I always have a word. I didn't like to give my children punishment. I didn't want to assign them punishment. The question was, "If you were me, what would you do? What punishment would you think is correct?" The first time I did that, I realized something. Usually the punishment they would give themselves was much worse than I would give them.
Do you hear a lot of feedback and love from teachers when you're out in the world? What kinds of stories do they come to you with?
Oh God, yes. First of all, they're always so surprised that our scripts are so right on their experiences. When I tell you our writers are great, our writers are really great. They're very creative, they're very knowledgeable. I wish we had one in the room that was just a little bit older, but the ones that we have are great, and they just don't let you down. Teachers are always amazed about, "How are they able to do that?" Because they know. They do their research, and I like that about them.
Earlier this year, I interviewed your co-star, Lisa Ann Walter, and she told me how you guys bonded over classic films.
Oh, I love TCM, Turner Classic Movies. I could watch old movies all day long, starting with "Perry Mason." That's old TV, but there's something about it that I just love. I think it's the simplicity of the stories sometimes. Some of them aren't good, but that's fine. They don't all have to be great.
I also learn a lot about society in different time [periods]. Do you watch movies in the '30s? My God, they were awful to women. They used to just slap women, and then women would just get up and say, "I love you." Or they would say "No," and these men would grab them up. I was like, "What kind of world is this?" Or they would just tell them to shut up and I'm like, "Oh, this is terrible."
You would see movies with Bette Davis in them, and just because she wore a red gown, she was, "Oh, a scarlet woman, a red gown." And then she had to sacrifice herself to scarlet fever because she wore the red gown. I was like, "What in the world?"
There's another movie with Harry Belafonte once again [“The World, The Flesh, and the Devil”], and it was about the last people on Earth: Harry Belafonte, a white woman, and a white man, and it's all about, "Well, who's going to get the girl?" I was like, "What the hell?" It's just very interesting.
But then there's another one, I don't remember it [“The Enchanted Cottage”], but it's very simple. [A couple] had been through something terrible and he was scarred, and she was just not pretty. Something happens to him where he looks at her, somehow she becomes beautiful, and his scars are gone. When they're in their world, they become more beautiful, but when they step outside of that world, the world wants to tell them how unattractive they are, until one day they decide, "We are beautiful." And I'm like, "I love that. That's a story right there."
I have very eclectic taste, so sometimes people say, "You really like that?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I really like that. And if you pay attention, you might like it too."
The cast of “Abbott Elementary” is so in sync. You guys look like an authentic family. What is set life like?
Set life for us is so good that when other people come to visit us on set, other guest stars, they're always like, "Wow, you all are happy." [Laughter.] They're like, "Wow, I really could stay here." I've been on other shows where you have to fake the funk, fake the family of it. This way, we don't have to fake it. We just come in and we know sometimes, "OK, stay away from them. They're not feeling so good today," and that's what you do. You just stay away. Then, when folks come back around, you all lean back into it again. We have great timing, we have great symbiosis, and it all works.
When you won your Emmy, your speech was captivating. What challenges have you faced throughout your career that drove you to that moment of delivering so much power to so many people?
I'll never forget the day I was too tall, too short, too Black and not Black enough, all in one day. All in one day. Then another time I was doing a film with the great Robert de Niro. He looked at me and he said, "You're a damn good actress, but you better climb that mountain and wave the red flag, because Hollywood is not looking for the Black girl." It's an awful lot to take. In my very first film, Sidney Poitier gave me this black box with everything that I would need in it to do my own hair and makeup. He said, "You need this because when you leave here, you won't have the same support, and you're going to have to learn how to be able to take care of yourself. And by the way, I expect great things from you." I think about things like that and carrying on. Those are just a few things, there've been so many more, but they've been obstacles that I've been able to get over.
How do younger actors respond to these stories? Are they shocked?
Sometimes they're very shocked, but sometimes I feel like – what does Kamala Harris' mother say? "Do you think you just dropped out of a coconut tree?" No. There was no road here before, the road had to be built. It wasn't always wonderful or a smooth highway. Sometimes it was just a dirt road, and people had to bust rocks for it to become the freeway that you're walking and driving on now.
Throughout your career, you’ve used your platform to champion so many causes, HIV and AIDS, and you’ve spoken out about your love for Jamaica.
It's the land of my mother's birth. I love it. I just love it. Beautiful food, beautiful music, beautiful vibes. I think if America is a dream country, we have dreams around capitalism. Jamaica has dreams around good living. If you're starving in Jamaica, you can walk anywhere throughout the island and somebody might give you a mango. Or you could climb a tree and pick it and eat some food. I love that.
With my work around HIV and AIDS, a lot of young people have no idea what a crime it was and a shame it was for people to say they had AIDS. This was before the whole HIV of it all. It was horrible, what it was like to be in this city and try and come out as yourself. People would beat you down. Are you kidding me? I've seen men bleed in the snow around people's hatred. So that was just something that had to be done.
Do you feel like now there's a bigger demand for your voice to speak out on these issues? How do you choose which issues to give your voice and your platform to?
I can only be authentic to what's good for me. I can only be authentic to what's real for me. I can only speak truth to power about what I know about.
It's a difficult time, too. I get to spend a lot of time in schools and colleges and talking to young people who are new voters and so many of them are just growing up jaded with the system.
I want to remind them once again, there was life before you. There was a whole generation of young people your age, teenagers, younger than teenagers, who knew their generation was not going to have the right to vote. They organized and they strategized when they saw kids being blown apart by bombs
for simply going to church. Kids organized when they saw strange fruit, people swinging from trees for daring to say, "I want to read. I want a good education. I want to vote." Kids made the decision to support their parents and their grandparents to march on Washington for the right to vote. So you are going to tell me now that you are at the precipice of having that right being taken away from you and you're going to tell me, "I can't get up off the couch."
Dammit. Then I blame myself for not teaching you that you deserve better. I blame me. I blame the whole generation because obviously, you don't know any better. And that is a crime. That is a shame. Just open your eyes up and see what is happening around you.
You know what else I can't stand? I can't stand when people start talking about how much they don't like immigrants and we need to shut the border. Have you [Donald Trump] not been married to two immigrants? You married immigrant after immigrant after immigrant, but now you want to tell us, "We need to shut the border." Okay, which border? The one with the white people to the north or the one with the darker people to the south?
You were an executive producer on your recent film ”The Fabulous Four.” Do you want this phase of your career to include more producing?
I love producing. People ask me about directing all the time. I love directing theater. I love directing the stage. I love working with kids in TV, not so much adults. But when it comes to producing, I love the ability to put all the pieces together, to be able to pick the great talent, to see where they can go. I love that.
What's next for you?
More. So much more, and I am thrilled and excited by it all. I think about my future and I'm like, "Thank you, God and Goddess."
